THE OPEN SPACE IN THE NORTH

[buzaw]

According to a tract I have found by Tract Evangelistic Crusade, Apache, Ar, astronomers have discovered a great empty space in the north, a heavenly cavern so great that it is incomprehensible. It was discovered via gigantic lenses with long exposures of photographic plates which can be further magnified. "What has been found correlates the words of Job; 'He stretches out the north over the empty place.' Job 26:7"

"All astronomers agree there is a huge opening in Orion which is perhaps more than 16,740, 000, 000, 000 miles in diameter. "

"Prof. Learkin of Mt. Lowe Observatory gives us the following description; These photographs reveal the opening and interior of the cavern so stupendous that our entire solar system would be lost therein. I have watched it since the days of youth in many telescopes of many powers, but never dreamed that the central region is the mouth of a colossal cave. Pen of writer and brush of artist alike are lifeless and inert in any attempt ot describe this interior; For the dept of the Orion nebula appear like torn and twisted objects and river masses of shining glass, iregular pillars, columns of stalactites in glittering splendor and stalagmites from the mighty floor. The appearance is like that of light shining and glowing behind the clear walls of ivory and pearl, studded with millions of diamonds like shining stars. There must be some reason why all this grandeur is lavished on this one spot in the heavens. The colors are a hue peculiar to the Orion and studded around the opening so that they appear as a pavement of starry sand.

In my "forever universe" thread I posted the following:


See it? See Heaven?

1. Maybe we do see it. Do you think we'd know what's in it or what it looks like from a great distance, except to see the light? Imo, the North Star could very well be it.

This star which since the beginning has been the single most guiding light in the sky for mankind to keep on tract and find his way. And then there's the magnetic North where the compass points. I've read were scientists have discovered that there is an empty "corridor" in the area of the North Star but have no documentation for this.

Genesis 26:7 "He stretches out the north over the empty space and hangs the earth over nothing."

Isaiah 14:13 "For you have said in your heart, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I wll be like the most High."
This text is in reference to the rebellion of Lucifer

The North Star (Polaris) is directly above the North Pole, the northern axis of our earth.

Why does mankind refer to north as "up" and south as "down?" Hmmm. Food for thought.

Anybody else know anything about this empty "corridor" in the Orion?

[tileman]

Pretty cool Buzz.............If there's another ancient book with so many wonders, truths, and mysteries resolved, I've yet to hear of it. (Not to mention flat out fullfilled prophecies)

[buzaw]

Pretty cool Buzz.............If there's another ancient book with so many wonders, truths, and mysteries resolved, I've yet to hear of it. (Not to mention flat out fullfilled prophecies)


Yah, Tileman, and it will be interesting to see if/what our skeptic friends may have for response.

[buzaw]

No other interest in this? None? Do you think it's significant? Any other ideas as to why/when man began to regard north as up and why the North pole has a magnetic field and not the south?

[LanceALott]

Buz: Anybody else know anything about this empty "corridor" in the Orion?

LAL: Well, I would say "Orion" is a Republican and the "empty corridor" runs between his ears.

[BrandonL]

To which Messier object is this referring to, Buz?
M42 or M43? Both are the "Orion Nebula", but one is also know as the DeMairan nebula.

M42:
http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m042.html

M43:
http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m043.html

M78:
http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m078.html

The entire nebula mass (pay attention to the horsehead nebula and Barnard's Loop):
http://www.seds.org/messier/more/oricloud.html



Give us a little more to go on, to what is he referring to?

No other interest in this? None? Do you think it's significant? Any other ideas as to why/when man began to regard north as up and why the North pole has a magnetic field and not the south?


Does the south pole have a magnetic field? The answer is yes it does. The earth is a magnetic dipole.

[BrandonL]

Does the south pole have a magnetic field? The answer is yes it does. The earth is a magnetic dipole.

Thanks lonestar.

Read up, buz. Don't just take a Chick tract at face value:

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/space/mag_field.html

[buzaw]

Does the south pole have a magnetic field? The answer is yes it does. The earth is a magnetic dipole.

Thanks lonestar.

Read up, buz. Don't just take a Chick tract at face value:

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/space/mag_field.html


Notice I asked as well as told. The magnetic thing had nothing to do with the tract. I'm still searching to see if anything in the tract was in error. As I understand it this alleged "corridor is someplace in the Orion Constelation or thereabouts.

As for the magnetic poles, I used the wrong phraseology. The fact that the magnet points north in the area of the North Pole is still significant, imo. Thanks for th link The motion chart in it is quite interesting. It seems the South Field draws from the center of the diapole Southward and from there it repels outward and circumvents around the earth to the magnetic North which draws it south.

I say "interesting" because this may, I say may indicate that if indeed the North Star were God the creator's central headquarters, something from that star ratiates to the earth's North to produce these diapole magnetic fields.

The responses are appreciated, Brandoni and Lonestar. If you learn or know more, please share it. 8)

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation. There is nothing magnetic radiating from that star that could reach earth with any significant effect. Only gravitation, the weakest force, multiplied by millions of tons of mass has the ability/force to reach from the stars to earth.

[BrandonL]

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation.

Not to mention that the magnetic north pole of the earth moves sightly every day as it is...

[buzaw]

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation. There is nothing magnetic radiating from that star that could reach earth with any significant effect. Only gravitation, the weakest force, multiplied by millions of tons of mass has the ability/force to reach from the stars to earth.


Well all we can do is speculate on this stuff when so little detail is given in the Bible and my attempt to fill in aome blank spaces likely leaves a lot to be desired, but some things from the Bible do seem to have some significance. As I think about it more, God's Heaven abode is not likely in our Milky Way galexy but the North Star does, imo seem to have some significance because of it's notable appearance and it's position.

I didn't say the North Star is directly north of the magnetic north of the earth. I said it was directly north of the North Pole. Also if you use a compass to get to the North Pole from any spot on the earth, you will eventually get there, but because the magnetic north changes, you may not with the compass go the most direct route to get there as I understood one of the links. Evidently after you reach the magnetic north, the compass will then take you directly to the North Pole.

Also notice that I didn't refer to magnetism as a possible force from the north coming to earth. My implication is that something (likely a spiritual something) may emmit from the north to create the magnetic pole of the earth and cause the compass to point north.

1. Biblical statements do hint that God's abode is in the north.
2. North has always been up when the south could have just as easily designated as up.
3. the earths surface magnetism draws the point of the compass north, even if you're in the area of the South Pole.
4. The North Pole has always been directly north of the North Pole in the Biblical history of the world.
5. According to the Bible the earth was created before the sun, moon and stars. (likely referring to either the stars of our galexy or the planets of our Solar System.

Could it be that the North Star is not in the Milky Way Galexy, but that it is a far more distant light showing through this alleged corridor spoken of in the tract as quoted from the astronomer?

[buzaw]

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation.

Not to mention that the magnetic north pole of the earth moves sightly every day as it is...


That seems to be from movement under the crust of the earth but as I said that does not change the position of Polaris itself and the compass will eventually get you there.

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation. There is nothing magnetic radiating from that star that could reach earth with any significant effect. Only gravitation, the weakest force, multiplied by millions of tons of mass has the ability/force to reach from the stars to earth.


Well all we can do is speculate on this stuff when so little detail is given in the Bible and my attempt to fill in aome blank spaces likely leaves a lot to be desired, but some things from the Bible do seem to have some significance. As I think about it more, God's Heaven abode is not likely in our Milky Way galexy but the North Star does, imo seem to have some significance because of it's notable appearance and it's position.

I didn't say the North Star is directly north of the magnetic north of the earth. I said it was directly north of the North Pole. Also if you use a compass to get to the North Pole from any spot on the earth, you will eventually get there, but because the magnetic north changes, you may not with the compass go the most direct route to get there as I understood one of the links. Evidently after you reach the magnetic north, the compass will then take you directly to the North Pole.

Also notice that I didn't refer to magnetism as a possible force from the north coming to earth. My implication is that something (likely a spiritual something) may emmit from the north to create the magnetic pole of the earth and cause the compass to point north.

1. Biblical statements do hint that God's abode is in the north.
2. North has always been up when the south could have just as easily designated as up.
3. the earths surface magnetism draws the point of the compass north, even if you're in the area of the South Pole.
4. The North Pole has always been directly north of the North Pole in the Biblical history of the world.
5. According to the Bible the earth was created before the sun, moon and stars. (likely referring to either the stars of our galexy or the planets of our Solar System.

Could it be that the North Star is not in the Milky Way Galexy, but that it is a far more distant light showing through this alleged corridor spoken of in the tract as quoted from the astronomer?


When Christ returns buzz he will be in the eastern sky, if his abode was in the north than wouldn't he come in a northernly direction?

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

(New Testament | Matthew 24:27)

[buzaw]

The north star has not always been aligned with magnetic north of the earth nor will it always remain. In a couple of million years more another star will be the north star. It is not a fixed point in the galaxy but a fixed apparent point in our perspective on the stars based on the earth's rotation. There is nothing magnetic radiating from that star that could reach earth with any significant effect. Only gravitation, the weakest force, multiplied by millions of tons of mass has the ability/force to reach from the stars to earth.


Well all we can do is speculate on this stuff when so little detail is given in the Bible and my attempt to fill in aome blank spaces likely leaves a lot to be desired, but some things from the Bible do seem to have some significance. As I think about it more, God's Heaven abode is not likely in our Milky Way galexy but the North Star does, imo seem to have some significance because of it's notable appearance and it's position.

I didn't say the North Star is directly north of the magnetic north of the earth. I said it was directly north of the North Pole. Also if you use a compass to get to the North Pole from any spot on the earth, you will eventually get there, but because the magnetic north changes, you may not with the compass go the most direct route to get there as I understood one of the links. Evidently after you reach the magnetic north, the compass will then take you directly to the North Pole.

Also notice that I didn't refer to magnetism as a possible force from the north coming to earth. My implication is that something (likely a spiritual something) may emmit from the north to create the magnetic pole of the earth and cause the compass to point north.

1. Biblical statements do hint that God's abode is in the north.
2. North has always been up when the south could have just as easily designated as up.
3. the earths surface magnetism draws the point of the compass north, even if you're in the area of the South Pole.
4. The North Pole has always been directly north of the North Pole in the Biblical history of the world.
5. According to the Bible the earth was created before the sun, moon and stars. (likely referring to either the stars of our galexy or the planets of our Solar System.

Could it be that the North Star is not in the Milky Way Galexy, but that it is a far more distant light showing through this alleged corridor spoken of in the tract as quoted from the astronomer?


When Christ returns buzz he will be in the eastern sky, if his abode was in the north than wouldn't he come in a northernly direction?

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

(New Testament | Matthew 24:27)



I take this to be an analogy as to the fact that it will be spactular and of the sudden appearance of the event. As the lightening is seen across the sky from east to west so so shall the brightness of his coming be. To take it to mean the direction from which he will come from space would seem to contradict the verses about the north, imo. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong here, as it could be taken either way.

[BrandonL]

Also if you use a compass to get to the North Pole from any spot on the earth, you will eventually get there, but because the magnetic north changes, you may not with the compass go the most direct route to get there as I understood one of the links. Evidently after you reach the magnetic north, the compass will then take you directly to the North Pole. Actually, you'll end up in Canada, then you'd have to use a map to get to the geographic north pole. A compass won't get you there.

Also notice that I didn't refer to magnetism as a possible force from the north coming to earth. My implication is that something (likely a spiritual something) may emmit from the north to create the magnetic pole of the earth and cause the compass to point north.
The spinning of the Earth causes the poles. Take a look at the links-they'll tell you why planetary bodies have magnetic poles.

3. the earths surface magnetism draws the point of the compass north, even if you're in the area of the South Pole. It could have been. Suppose the person who came up with the words north, south, east, and west had said the east is where the compass pointed.

or, suppose you followed the OTHER side of the needle. It's just magnetism, buz-nothing that magical.


Could it be that the North Star is not in the Milky Way Galexy, but that it is a far more distant light showing through this alleged corridor spoken of in the tract as quoted from the astronomer?

Got some evidence for that? Considering Polaris is not in the constellation Orion-is this corridor of yours now not in Orion, or is it in Alpha Ursae Minoris?

One thing to remember buz-Polaris is not DIRECTLY above the pole. It does have some wobble to it-it's simply the NEAREST star to the center. If you take time lapse photos of the night sky you'll see it does rotate.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap980912.html

[LanceALott]

Buz; I said it was directly north of the North Pole.

LaL: Actually, Brandon is right. Polaris is about one degree from true north, and goes around TN in a circle. BTW, I'm an old retired Air Force navigator, so I know what I'm talking about. I've used Polaris many times.

Buz: Also if you use a compass to get to the North Pole from any spot on the earth, you will eventually get there, but because the magnetic north changes, you may not with the compass go the most direct route to get there as I understood one of the links.

LaL: Actually, you will not get to the North Pole by following a compass. First, the magentic north pole and True north are many miles apart up there. And you have another problem with your compass. The magnetic north pole is not opn the surface of the earth, but is down deep inside the molten rock in earth's core. So when you get way up north, your darn compass actually will point down, and it becomes unusable in the vicinity of the north pole. It just won't work. --

LaL; We navigators who felw in that area had to fly what we called "grid" headings instead of magnetic headings. We used a gyroscope or gyro-compass which had nothing to do with north at all.

Buzz: Evidently after you reach the magnetic north, the compass will then take you directly to the North Pole.

LaL: The above is wishfulthinking. Grid navigation is hard work for a navigator.

[buzaw]

I got my info that Polaris was directly above the North Pole from this link. Evidently they didn't consider a degree of wobble to be worth mentioning and for the purpose of this discussion, neither do I.


"Curious About Astronomy: Why is twilight short near the equator?
... One more thing you need to know about these rotation patterns is this:
Polaris sits directly above the North Pole. If you were standing ... "

http://www.curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number

[buzaw]

That link doesn't seem to work, but if you want to go to the site, search curious.astro.cornell on google and you should find it. That doesn't work either. Well then search north pole polaris above. That's how I found it. It not that it's important. It's that I don't want folks to think I'm weaving things up from wholecloth.

[LanceALott]

Buzz: I got my info that Polaris was directly above the North Pole from this link. Evidently they didn't consider a degree of wobble to be worth mentioning and for the purpose of this discussion, neither do I.


LaL: I see you pay just as much lack of attention to details (truth) in your religion.

[buzaw]

Buzz: I got my info that Polaris was directly above the North Pole from this link. Evidently they didn't consider a degree of wobble to be worth mentioning and for the purpose of this discussion, neither do I.


LaL: I see you pay just as much lack of attention to details (truth) in your religion.



Well LaL, how does that degree change anything said here as to substance? So the earth wobbles a degree. Polaris is still above the North Star.

[LanceALott]

Buzz: Polaris is still above the North Star.

LaL: Buzz, Polaris IS the North Star.

[buzaw]

Buzz: Polaris is still above the North Star.

LaL: Buzz, Polaris IS the North Star.


Yah, I know. I meant, of course to say Polaris was above the North Pole, referring to the geographic pole. I stand corrected also in the the compass will not take you to the geographic pole. One link I visited said the compass will not take you to the geographic pole but you will eventually get there using an indirect route. What it did not say is that you'd need maps n such to get from the magenetic pole to the geographic pole. Thanks

[BrandonL]

I got my info that Polaris was directly above the North Pole from this link. Evidently they didn't consider a degree of wobble to be worth mentioning and for the purpose of this discussion, neither do I.

Why isn't Yildun equally important to you? Considering it's right next to Polaris. And while were at it-which is more important? Polaris A or B?

BTW, the north pole of the Milky Way is in the constellation Coma Berenices...any significance?

Oh, and one last thing-in the time of the Egyptians (at around 4,620 years ago)-the north polar star was Thuban-in Draco. 5K years from now-Cephus, 14K-Vega...

Getting the point yet?


[/quote]

[buzaw]

I got my info that Polaris was directly above the North Pole from this link. Evidently they didn't consider a degree of wobble to be worth mentioning and for the purpose of this discussion, neither do I.

Why isn't Yildun equally important to you? Considering it's right next to Polaris. And while were at it-which is more important? Polaris A or B?

BTW, the north pole of the Milky Way is in the constellation Coma Berenices...any significance?

Oh, and one last thing-in the time of the Egyptians (at around 4,620 years ago)-the north polar star was Thuban-in Draco. 5K years from now-Cephus, 14K-Vega...

Getting the point yet?

Yah, it's beginning to look like Polaris isn't Heaven. Note that I never insisted that it was but suggested it could be. Looking more and more like that's just not the case, and I appreciate the information.

Imo, the significant thing remains though, that the scriptures seem to indicate God's Heaven location to be in the North parts of the heavens. Likely not in our Milky Way galexy though. That the north is up and the magnetic compass points north and that the North star is a significant guide, imo is still significant in the light of what the scripture says about the north.

Do you have any problem with the astronomer's quote in my opening statement?
[/quote]

[BrandonL]

Imo, the significant thing remains though, that the scriptures seem to indicate God's Heaven location to be in the North parts of the heavens. Likely not in our Milky Way galexy though. That the north is up and the magnetic compass points north and that the North star is a significant guide, imo is still significant in the light of what the scripture says about the north. That is providing you are using the earth and it's equator as a universal reference point. Note in my previous post that the galactic north is quite a ways off the Earth's north. And, (not sure if anyone's done anything with this) we could actually be upside down and the universal north is in the opposite direction....

See where I'm going with that? North and South are human representations of things. Trying to figure out which way is up and down in the universe requires a set point to go off of. SOmething that would need to be set by people.

You are reading way to much into North being "up". It's simply a human description for one of the poles. If "heaven" is in the universe, it certainly isn't in the north-since the north curves around the surface of the earth and does not extend out to infinity straight up.

Do you have any problem with the astronomer's quote in my opening statement?
It's not really a problem with it, per se. Just where you are trying to go with it.

[buzaw]

Imo, the significant thing remains though, that the scriptures seem to indicate God's Heaven location to be in the North parts of the heavens. Likely not in our Milky Way galexy though. That the north is up and the magnetic compass points north and that the North star is a significant guide, imo is still significant in the light of what the scripture says about the north. That is providing you are using the earth and it's equator as a universal reference point. Note in my previous post that the galactic north is quite a ways off the Earth's north. And, (not sure if anyone's done anything with this) we could actually be upside down and the universal north is in the opposite direction....

See where I'm going with that? North and South are human representations of things. Trying to figure out which way is up and down in the universe requires a set point to go off of. SOmething that would need to be set by people.

You are reading way to much into North being "up". It's simply a human description for one of the poles. If "heaven" is in the universe, it certainly isn't in the north-since the north curves around the surface of the earth and does not extend out to infinity straight up.


Imo, as to the north, and as far as what mankind has always thought of, north is up, and the Bible would be written so as to relate to man's conception of what is up and what is north because the Bible was not written to accomodate the physicist or the astronomer of our century. It was written to the man on the street.

So far as what is "up" in the universe, if, for example God's heaven were at the center of the universe, likely the center would be up from any given place in the universe. "North" is a concept of man, whether given from God in the beginning or whether conceived by early man. Otherwise what is up and what is north would not be an absolute, but a conception of whoever was wherever in the universe.

Imo, gravity and magetism bears also on this. The earth's gravity pulls downward. Thus the center of the earth is down and the sky up. Also as to the surface of the planet, the North Pole magnetism draws the magnetic compass up, so north is up to anything on the surface of the planet. If we were at the core, we would consider the South Pole as "up" likely because were we in either of the earth's core poles, the compass would point to the south, if I'm not mistaken. But we are not in the core. (thankfully :).)[/quote]

The only reason for even designating a direction like North was for mapping. By the time the Bible was written people were obviously writing and drawing things and one of those things would be maps. When you draw a map it must have reference points. It then represents the landscape which has a N, S, E, and W from wherever the center of the map represents. In looking at the map there would be an up, down, left and right. In looking at the landscape there is only that way and the other way and all points in between. On the landscape up would be into the sky and down would be into the earth. On the map up would be the top of the map and down the bottom. That ancient people would have established a standard that up represented northerly travel only makes sense. The Bible is simply using a well established standard for describing travel on earth in relation to what it looks like on a map.

Adding mystical significance to the terms up and down and looking for heaven among the stars is fodder for the SciFi channel's sightings show.

I am a skeptic. I am not a religious Christian. I don't look for signs and wonders that evidence the existence of God, spirits, heaven, etc. because I don't need them. I don't believe that the visages of Jesus and Mary appear in tree stumps and corn chips. I don't believe the visage of Satan shows up in bomb blasts. I don't fault people who want to believe in those signs and wonders. I kind of envy them their belief that the world IS that magical of a place. If those things help the faithful to remain and grow in their faith then more power to them.

[buzaw]

The only reason for even designating a direction like North was for mapping. By the time the Bible was written people were obviously writing and drawing things and one of those things would be maps.

Nobody knows when people began writing. Preflood folks were as civilized as postflood folks were according to the Bible. They were into building, ironworking and all of it. There is no documention that I'm aware of of anytime in recorded human history that north wasn't north and north wasn't up. The concept seems to have been with man from the beginning.


I am a skeptic. I am not a religious Christian. I don't look for signs and wonders that evidence the existence of God, spirits, heaven, etc. because I don't need them. I don't believe that the visages of Jesus and Mary appear in tree stumps and corn chips. I don't believe the visage of Satan shows up in bomb blasts. I don't fault people who want to believe in those signs and wonders. I kind of envy them their belief that the world IS that magical of a place. If those things help the faithful to remain and grow in their faith then more power to them.


I don't believe in the visions cited above either. There's simply no basis for them. But what about the fulfilled prophecies, such as the prophecies of the crucifixion n so forth in Psalms and Isaiah, written 700 to 1000 BC?

Nobody knows when people began writing. Preflood folks were as civilized as postflood folks were according to the Bible. They were into building, ironworking and all of it. There is no documention that I'm aware of of anytime in recorded human history that north wasn't north and north wasn't up. The concept seems to have been with man from the beginning.

My point wasn't that this is documented but that it stands to reason. In order for one person to tell another where to go and how to get there primitive man probably drew maps in the dirt or on cave walls. In drawing a map on a cave wall they would have put one of the compass points up and the oposite one down. This would have been the first time that horizontal travel would have been represented by up.

I don't believe in the visions cited above either. There's simply no basis for them. But what about the fulfilled prophecies, such as the prophecies of the crucifixion n so forth in Psalms and Isaiah, written 700 to 1000 BC?

I see a huge difference in the fulfilled prophesies in the Bible and your particular spin on the Bible predicting holes in space and various other phenomenon recently discovered by astronomers with the Hubble. The former is documentation and the latter is hopeful speculation. Like the people who see the visage of Christ in potato chips you are intent on finding further evidence for your penchant for biblical prophesy.

[BrandonL]

Imo, gravity and magetism bears also on this. The earth's gravity pulls downward. It actually pulls towards the center.

Thus the center of the earth is down and the sky up. Unless you are standing on your head.

Also as to the surface of the planet, the North Pole magnetism draws the magnetic compass up, so north is up to anything on the surface of the planet. Actually-it pulls it down, using your logic. If I'm in Florida-the north pole is at the top of the curve-and not actually "up".

North is only "up" on a map.[/quote]

[buzaw]

Imo, gravity and magetism bears also on this. The earth's gravity pulls downward. It actually pulls towards the center.
Yah, that's what I meant.

Thus the center of the earth is down and the sky up. Unless you are standing on your head.

I was assuming nobody reading this is standing on their head. Is that what you're doing? ;D

Also as to the surface of the planet, the North Pole magnetism draws the magnetic compass up, so north is up to anything on the surface of the planet. Actually-it pulls it down, using your logic. If I'm in Florida-the north pole is at the top of the curve-and not actually "up".

Okedoke. I meant to say "the North Pole magnetism draws the magnetic compass up north, so north is up to anything on the surface of the planet." Howzat?


North is only "up" on a map.
[/quote]

.............and in the speech and thinking of the people of the planet so far as directions go.

[Ashley]

Hi
I have been doing research on the open space in Orion. as first discribed by William Hercshel

It is no small hole/opening its' mouth could contain 90,000 of our solar systems with room to spare.

A woman named Ellen White pointed to it as the place that the voice of God will come from.

If the City Of God described in Revelation was in that opening It would not be visable due to it size (Roughly 1500 miles circum. and 375 mile one side) Even hubble has problems resolving planets that quite a bit larger than Jupter.

The pole star changes ever 4500 years or so due to a wobble in Earths rotation. I believe it use to be Vega.

Below you will find some intresting sites, quotes, and movies

http://vis.sdsc.edu/
has a cool mpeg and quicktime fly through the large cave in the M42 Nebula

http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/borley/49/u225.htm

William Herschel observed it in 1784 with his newly completed 18.7-inch f/13 speculum telescope. He wrote of "the beautiful Nebula of Orion. Its extent is much above one degree; the eastern branch passes between two very small stars, and runs on till it meets a very bright one. Close to the four small stars, which can have no connection with the nebula, is a total blackness; and within the open part, towards the north-east, is a distinct small faint nebula, of an extended shape, at a distance from the border of the great one, to which it runs in a parallel direction,

In the bright center area, (rectangular) surrounding the Trapezium, that is so often seen "burnt-in" to photographs, there were included intricate lacy threads of gas, and a nearly complete "canal" or dark lane cutting almost all the way through it, (bisecting it , but offset) opposite from M43, and opp. from the dark wedge that pokes into it.

The area around the Trapezium in very, very mottled, like storm clouds. The dark marking called the "fish mouth" appears three dimensional. The dark area is obviously in front of the nebulosity. The dark lane extends beyond the nebula to the NE. Raising the power to 220X will hold 10 of the faint stars in the nebula steady. The central region around the Trapezium has "rays" of nebulosity that extend into the darker region to the south. The Trapezium stars are contained within a "hole" in the nebula, it appears that these stars lit off and blew away the material nearby.

http://intranet.rocklizard.org/astronomyclass/starborn.htm

Stars are created from nebulas - a thin expanse of material. If the nebula is near a star or group of stars, it can be seen as emitted light (caused by re-emitting energy absorbed from the star light) or as reflected light (bounced off the nebula material). The Great Nebula of Orion displays both types. A nebula far from any stars is not directly visible and can only be detected as it blots out stars behind it, forming a "hole in the heavens" as one astronomer (William Herschel) once described them. There's no good example of such a "hole" in the Northern Celestial Hemisphere

[wellkeptsecrets]

Hi Ashley. You spell interesting just like one of our other posters here. 8)

[Ashley]

I try spelling it like it sounds. :) cannot live with out spell check

[WCP]

I try spelling it like it sounds. :) cannot live with out spell check



Home skooled?

[Ashley]

Nope.

[wellkeptsecrets]

I try spelling it like it sounds. :) cannot live with out spell check



So Ashley what great wind blew you here to NoPC?

[Ashley]

The search engine brought it up while researching M-42 nebula, as I said earlier I am gathering information on William Hercshel's opening in Orion I also have a post on the Bad Astronomy BB

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=434626&highlight=opening+orion&#43 4626

Here is a computer model of the open space in Orion

[attachment deleted by admin]

[wellkeptsecrets]

The search engine brought it up while researching M-42 nebula.


You googled us with M-42 nebula as your parameter? Imagine that. :)

[Ashley]

That and Opening in Orion as exact phrase.
I have to change this lama pic.

[wellkeptsecrets]

That and Opening in Orion as exact phrase.
I have to change this lama pic.


Night sky buff? What do you know about the Andromeda galaxy? It is incredibly beautiful.

[WCP]

Messier Object 42 (aka M-42)

http://members.cox.net/mbonadio/m42.jpg

[Ashley]

Yes! but not much anymore here in Florida (bugs! as bad as the vampire children on the Van Hellsing Movie) here hoping to move back north in a couple years.
Andromeda is one of our closest neighboring galaxies barring the one we are tearing through in the area Sagittarius, it is a naked eye object like M-42 (Looks like a white hazy blob) I use the handle of the Big Dipper to find it.

[Ashley]

Hi Wellkeptsecrets
This sight will give you alittle background information about Andromeda
http://www.seds.org/messier/m/m031.html

During the Summer I use the handle of the Big Dipper to find it. If you come off the handle with a slight arc toward the bottom of the Dipper you will Run into a bright star Arturus. back up two dimmer stars toward the Big Dipper and you should see it as a Hazy patch near the second dim star.

[Larry_Oldtimer]

Oops, this is starting to look like it belongs in Dr. Goddard's Lab where we talk about space, science, and science related topics. Welcome aboard, Ashley, it is good to see another here who enjoys science and scientific topic discussion. :D

[Ashley]

Thanks for the welcome.
I assumed that this topic (current branch) was in nature, scientific. I found it by doing research, and I read through the whole branch. It seemed that people were looking for answers to their questions.

[Larry_Oldtimer]

Thanks for the welcome.
I assumed that this topic (current branch) was in nature, scientific. I found it by doing research, and I read through the whole branch. It seemed that people were looking for answers to their questions.



Check out the other forums. ;)

[Ashley]

I have other post on a B.B. at BadAstronomy.com

[Larry_Oldtimer]

I have other post on a B.B. at BadAstronomy.com


Interesting site . . . I will check it out . . . I do so hate junk science, and there is sure a lot of it out there, by supposedly educated and knowledgeable scientists. I am more into physics than astronomy, but no harm in more knowledge about any science. :D

[BrandonL]

I hate science....it's for losers. 8)

Did a google for M-42, and whadda know...No PC was there. This very thread.

[wellkeptsecrets]

I hate science....it's for losers. 8)

Did a google for M-42, and whadda know...No PC was there. This very thread.


8)

[BrandonL]

Oops, this is starting to look like it belongs in Dr. Goddard's Lab where we talk about space, science, and science related topics.
Yep, and my superpowers don't extend outside the Lab and B&B :( Just like a Genie and its lamp. Maybe some nice admin will either move the whole topic, or split it where it went off religious tangent and into science ;)

[polaris]

The open space in the North!

Shucks! I thought this was about Canada....

[ilovelucy]

Do scientists have an idea what lies beyond M-42?

[Ashley]

Orion is on the edge of our galaxy. I suppose nothing until the next galaxy.

[Unca Walt]

No other interest in this? None? Do you think it's significant? Any other ideas as to why/when man began to regard north as up and why the North pole has a magnetic field and not the south?


Oh, deary-dear...

This is as far as I read before abandoning this thread.

If it is going to be promulgated by UNeducated folks with their BS's in Metaphysics... it ain't my cuppa...

Geez. A magnet with only a North pole. Yikes. "no magnetic pole" in the south. Ignertz. This sorta thing frustrates the crap outa enk-in-neers like Your Humble Obdn't &tc.

Geez. Why not a string with only one end?

A slice of bread with only one side?

An Up, but not a Down?

An Inside, but no Outside?

Let's all send away to the College of I Din' Study At School and get our degrees.

These are the people you cannot convince that there is NOT an Alter-Earth exactly on the opposite side of the Sun.

...'Cause they don't know enough to understand basic fargin physics.

This does NOT qualify as a "Raging Debate", just "Raging Ignertz".

Unca Walt, Cross This Mornin'