Isaiah 61:1

What is your take on this scripture. How does it relate to 1 Peter 3:18-21?

I'm a "God hater" and my opinion is irrelevant.

Just out of curiosity, what is the scripture?

[jeny]

I'm a "God hater" and my opinion is irrelevant.

Just out of curiosity, what is the scripture?


heathen.

I'm a "God hater" and my opinion is irrelevant.

Just out of curiosity, what is the scripture?


You should read it, you are mentioned in it many times. ;)

You should read it, you are mentioned in it many times. ;)


I have? I really don't know what it is, but I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me.

[Persephone]

You should read it, you are mentioned in it many times. ;)


I have? I really don't know what it is, but I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me.


Since I have my women's devotional Bible sitting right next to my computer, I already know what it says. So there.

[jeny]

You should read it, you are mentioned in it many times. ;)


I have? I really don't know what it is, but I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me.


Since I have my women's devotional Bible sitting right next to my computer, I already know what it says. So there.


My brother got me one of those for Chirstmas three years ago.

He probably got it for free at church. cheap bastard

[Persephone]

My brother got me one of those for Chirstmas three years ago.

He probably got it for free at church. cheap bastard



It has pretty pictures. I'm thinking my mother probably got a bulk rate on these. I'm sure the whole Sunday School class has them.

You should read it, you are mentioned in it many times. ;)


I have? I really don't know what it is, but I'd appreciate it if you'd tell me.


Since I have my women's devotional Bible sitting right next to my computer, I already know what it says. So there.


Tell me something, if you have read those two scriptures, does it not indicate that Christ and his gospel will be preached even to those who are in hell? And he is going to preach his gospel to those in hell and provide 'liberty' to them, then hell cannot be a pit of fire where punishment goes on forever or else why preach the gospel to them?

[Persephone]

Isaiah 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to
those who are bound.

[jeny]

My brother got me one of those for Chirstmas three years ago.

He probably got it for free at church. cheap bastard



It has pretty pictures. I'm thinking my mother probably got a bulk rate on these. I'm sure the whole Sunday School class has them.


My brother, bless his soul, in the delivery room with his wife awaiting his second child at this very moment, thinks I am a heathen sinner with my name floating in the river of fire, since I didn't get "borned again" with him and lose this silly Catholic habit of mine. :D

[Persephone]

I Peter 3:18-20

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

[Persephone]

Tell me something, if you have read those two scriptures, does it not indicate that Christ and his gospel will be preached even to those who are in hell? And he is going to preach his gospel to those in hell and provide 'liberty' to them, then hell cannot be a pit of fire where punishment goes on forever or else why preach the gospel to them?



To sinners and criminals, yes. In Hell, literally? I dunno. Where's buzzy?

Isaiah 61:1

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anounted Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to
those who are bound.


Isaiah is speaking Messianically here, as if he were the Messiah.

[Persephone]

You may be right. I don't have a concordance handy.

You may be right. I don't have a concordance handy.


Christ quoted this scripture in Luke 4:18. I've wondered about what he meant by 'preach deliverance to the captives'?

[Persephone]

You may be right. I don't have a concordance handy.


Christ quoted this scripture in Luke 4:18. I've wondered about what he meant by 'preach deliverance to the captives'?



The enemies? Prisoners of war and criminals.

Metaphorically, "God haters." :)

You may be right. I don't have a concordance handy.


Christ quoted this scripture in Luke 4:18. I've wondered about what he meant by 'preach deliverance to the captives'?



The enemies? Prisoners of war and criminals.

Metaphorically, "God haters." :)


That's good, instead of sticking your sanctimonious nose in the air (Singer), you could be over here preaching to the captives. :)

[Persephone]

John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, and the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


Perhaps we are only waiting for someone to make the Word flesh. :)

John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, and the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.


Perhaps we are only waiting for someone to make the Word flesh. :)



Yeah. :)

[Persephone]

God knows buzzy tries. That's one thing you can say for the old fart. He preaches to the captives. :)

[Satan]

God knows buzzy tries. That's one thing you can say for the old fart. He preaches to the captives. :)


Tell it, Sister. ;D

[LanceALott]

Well, I ain't no God hater; but I tell you what, I could sure learn to hate some of those angry mean fundamentalists who try to impersonate Him.

[Meshuga Mikey]

My brother got me one of those for Chirstmas three years ago.

He probably got it for free at church. cheap bastard



It has pretty pictures. I'm thinking my mother probably got a bulk rate on these. I'm sure the whole Sunday School class has them.


My brother, bless his soul, in the delivery room with his wife awaiting his second child at this very moment, thinks I am a heathen sinner with my name floating in the river of fire, since I didn't get "borned again" with him and lose this silly Catholic habit of mine. :D


ONLY GOD KNOW anyones heart the rest is Mere Specumolation there Sapphire~!! scuse me whilst I go Tell It On The Mountain!!!

[Slipped Mickey]

See? See what happens when you are taling on the phone at work and posting about hellfire all at the same time. :o It was divine intervention to be sure. ;D

Sorry Lone Star. Happy New Year!

Sorry Buzzwad, I don’t mean to pee on your hellfire but historical documentation to God’s chosen one dying the noble death to atone mankind for sins committed is not limited to Jesus. There were many prior to Jesus and many similar stories and myths. In other words the death for salvation of all had been kicked around the campfire for centuries prior Paul uses creative license to create a legend. You don’t think Paul might have stolen the idea do you?

Here are a few from the pagan past:

Mithras
Tammuz
Krishna
Prometheus
Ixion
Iao
Quetzalcoatl
Bali
Hesus (Celtic Druid)
Wittoba



Hey 'ol buddy! I don't think buzz made a comment on this thread. It was I who started it. Did you think it was buzzboy? :)

[buzaw]

Sorry, I was outa town yesterday and last evening was busy cussing and discussing my friend, BN. (Ahem!)

Anyhow, here's my take on this. There's an area some place in the earth called "Hades," which is not the ultimate "lake of fire," spoken of in Revelation where it says, "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire."

This place in the earth, according to the story of the rich man has a cold compartment and a hot one. Since the satisfactory permanent atoning sacrifice for sin (Jesus) was not yet effected, this cool place in Hades was where the ones went who had the temporary animal atonement applied to them. These are often referred to as the "Old Testament Saints."

Before Jesus was crucified, he made this prophecy:

"For as Johah was three days and three nights in the whales's belly; so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40 (son of man referring to himself)

This, coupled with the preaching to the captives, imo, makes sense. He went down and communed with these OT saints and we are told that after he died and arose, many "saints" were resurrected. Thus we read in Matt. 27:52,53:

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared to many."

So Lazarus, Moses and all the other OT believers were resurrected from this earth place at that time. The NT saints/Christians await the sounding of the last (7th) trumpet for their resurrection.

Did I miss anything?

Tex, my good friend, I'm afraid I don't see a 2nd chance here for the following reasons:

1. The story of the rich man and his dilema.
2. In Hebrews some place this: " It is appointed to men, once to die, and after this the judgement."
3. If you're right no need to preach the gospel now. Enjoy the sins of the flesh, live it up. Fix it up down yunder when you get to it.
4. All the dangerous mission work in spiritually dark areas of the world would not be necessary and the great commission to "preach the gospel of the Kingdom to all the world" would be rather meaningless.

Imo, it's simply a copout and excuse for the unrepentant to put off til tomorrow what needs be done today, but alas, no guarantee to any of us of a tomorrow alive on this earth.

I'm not talking about a 'second chance' for there is none but I am talking about the gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to every soul who has ever lived, then, now and in the future who never had a chance in this life to hear the gospel and not just any gospel but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I'm not convinced when we die we either go to heaven or to hell. Seems like there is a place we go until we are resurrected and than we go on to our destiny. Although I think hell is a part of this place, I believe hell will give up her dead. All men will be resurrected and that in itself is a form of salvation from death. We are not all equal though and will be judged accordingly. The lake of fire is the final destination of Satan and his angels and those who follow Satan but many who you think will go to hell for eternity, and will be in hell when they die, will be set free when the gospel is preached to them and they repent, that is not a second chance, that is their first chance that they did not get here. God is fair.

[buzaw]

I'm not talking about a 'second chance' for there is none but I am talking about the gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to every soul who has ever lived, then, now and in the future who never had a chance in this life to hear the gospel and not just any gospel but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I'm not convinced when we die we either go to heaven or to hell. Seems like there is a place we go until we are resurrected and than we go on to our destiny. Although I think hell is a part of this place, I believe hell will give up her dead. All men will be resurrected and that in itself is a form of salvation from death. We are not all equal though and will be judged accordingly. The lake of fire is the final destination of Satan and his angels and those who follow Satan but many who you think will go to hell for eternity, and will be in hell when they die, will be set free when the gospel is preached to them and they repent, that is not a second chance, that is their first chance that they did not get here. God is fair.


All I can say is that your theory sounds nice, but where is it taught in the NT??

Again, if you're right, missions and evangelism here is a waste of time.

I'm not talking about a 'second chance' for there is none but I am talking about the gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to every soul who has ever lived, then, now and in the future who never had a chance in this life to hear the gospel and not just any gospel but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I'm not convinced when we die we either go to heaven or to hell. Seems like there is a place we go until we are resurrected and than we go on to our destiny. Although I think hell is a part of this place, I believe hell will give up her dead. All men will be resurrected and that in itself is a form of salvation from death. We are not all equal though and will be judged accordingly. The lake of fire is the final destination of Satan and his angels and those who follow Satan but many who you think will go to hell for eternity, and will be in hell when they die, will be set free when the gospel is preached to them and they repent, that is not a second chance, that is their first chance that they did not get here. God is fair.


All I can say is that your theory sounds nice, but where is it taught in the NT??

Again, if you're right, missions and evangelism here is a waste of time.


Not at all buzz, as the scriptures say, now is the time to repent ... if you've heard the gospel. Many have lived who have never heard the gospel but would have accepted it if they had it preached to them and that is why the gospel is preached in hell so men can accept it and repent. Still, men will reject it there just like they do here and there is no 'second chance', just a chance for everybody to hear the gospel and either accept it or reject it. It does matter what we do here because I believe when we die we are still the same between the ears. BTW, I believe there is a space between death and judgement and no one goes to their ultimate destiny until after the resurrection.

[buzaw]

I'm not talking about a 'second chance' for there is none but I am talking about the gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to every soul who has ever lived, then, now and in the future who never had a chance in this life to hear the gospel and not just any gospel but the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I'm not convinced when we die we either go to heaven or to hell. Seems like there is a place we go until we are resurrected and than we go on to our destiny. Although I think hell is a part of this place, I believe hell will give up her dead. All men will be resurrected and that in itself is a form of salvation from death. We are not all equal though and will be judged accordingly. The lake of fire is the final destination of Satan and his angels and those who follow Satan but many who you think will go to hell for eternity, and will be in hell when they die, will be set free when the gospel is preached to them and they repent, that is not a second chance, that is their first chance that they did not get here. God is fair.


All I can say is that your theory sounds nice, but where is it taught in the NT??

Again, if you're right, missions and evangelism here is a waste of time.


Not at all buzz, as the scriptures say, now is the time to repent ... if you've heard the gospel. Many have lived who have never heard the gospel but would have accepted it if they had it preached to them and that is why the gospel is preached in hell so men can accept it and repent.

So you're saying the ones who did hear have no chance in hell? Wouldn't that be unfair as the others would then have visible proof and do anything to get out of the torment? So in that case it would be better to tell nobody so as they would see the visible proof before deciding. Otherwise you're giving them an opportunity to reject and forever be lost with no equal after death opportunity.


Still, men will reject it there just like they do here .........

No way in "hell." You can take it to the bank. They got nothing to loose and there repenting and outa that torment in a heartbeat.

Hittn hay. Talk to ya later. :)

Good night buzz.

We need to talk about hell. I don't buy the fire and stuff as if a God of 'love' would torment and torture his children like that. It must be something else.

[buzaw]

There's not a lot to say about it after reading the account of the rich man. It is obvious from the account that this man would'v done ANYTHING to excape it. It was that bad, regardless of it's exact description. If one little drop of water would have been welcomed, it had to be very bad. I'm certainly no in a position to explain the mind of the designer of the universe. The only explanation that would make sense to me personally is that:

1. Humans were created to be eternal indestructable beings.

2. In God's universe all evil must be destroyed by fire it seems.

3. The first Law of Thermal Dynamics says nothing is destroyed but may change it's nature/composition.

Otherwise all we can do is guess on this or that. The bottom line is we finite little beings have no say in how the universe is run. Our best strategy is to conform to the one who calls the shots.

There's not a lot to say about it after reading the account of the rich man. It is obvious from the account that this man would'v done ANYTHING to excape it. It was that bad, regardless of it's exact description. If one little drop of water would have been welcomed, it had to be very bad. I'm certainly no in a position to explain the mind of the designer of the universe. The only explanation that would make sense to me personally is that:

1. Humans were created to be eternal indestructable beings.

2. In God's universe all evil must be destroyed by fire it seems.

3. The first Law of Thermal Dynamics says nothing is destroyed but may change it's nature/composition.

Otherwise all we can do is guess on this or that. The bottom line is we finite little beings have no say in how the universe is run. Our best strategy is to conform to the one who calls the shots.


"Destroyed by fire" is a contradiction when you are talking about hell. According to you God is not destroying anybody in hell, he's torturing him or her for eternity. What's the purpose? Is God such an egomaniac that he actually derives pleasure from 'burning' someone for eternity?

[buzaw]

The Bible uses terms like "destruction" as well as eternal torment. Like I said. All we can go on is what the book says. My point is that it is so bad whatever it is that anyone in it would do anything to escape it. The text, imo indicates that that's impossible. I can't change that. It's God's business. He proves himself real through his supernatural book and that suffices for me. I can do two things:

1. Prepare for my own eternal destiny.

2. Inasmuch as is possible, "rescue the perishing" as the old hymn goes by warning and publishing the saving gospel message so as to include my friends, neighbors, and relatives, etc in the promise of Heaven.

To do as Slipped Mickey and others would have me do and keep it all to myself, like I had this big life boat when the ship was sinking and I myself in it oared off, leaving all I could have resued to sink.

He and others, when I try, accuse me, so to speak, of shoving the lifeboat oar down their throat, so they resent any effort on the part of Christians to offer them what we think they need. They take it personal, not undersanding that we simply want to offer them something good for them.

The Bible uses terms like "destruction" as well as eternal torment. Like I said. All we can go on is what the book says. My point is that it is so bad whatever it is that anyone in it would do anything to escape it. The text, imo indicates that that's impossible. I can't change that. It's God's business. He proves himself real through his supernatural book and that suffices for me. I can do two things:

1. Prepare for my own eternal destiny.

2. Inasmuch as is possible, "rescue the perishing" as the old hymn goes by warning and publishing the saving gospel message so as to include my friends, neighbors, and relatives, etc in the promise of Heaven.

To do as Slipped Mickey and others would have me do and keep it all to myself, like I had this big life boat when the ship was sinking and I myself in it oared off, leaving all I could have resued to sink.

He and others, when I try, accuse me, so to speak, of shoving the lifeboat oar down their throat, so they resent any effort on the part of Christians to offer them what we think they need. They take it personal, not undersanding that we simply want to offer them something good for them.


You are doing what the scriptures says to do, warn your neighbor, it's an act of love. I never thought you were shoving your faith down people's throats, some others tried. I've known you to stay the course and would hope you continue.

Have you checked your personal message? Look up at the top left of the date and see if you have any messages.