An Incredible Christian - - -IMHO

If all christians were like this man was - I would sign up tomorrow. What an amazing man!

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper441/stills/82i7j75g.gif

William Wilberforce's name isn't a household word anymore, and that's a shame. He was one of the great British statesmen of his time --

and,

Of what did Wilberforce's Christian faith consist? His own statements of faith always are straightforward and admirably clear. His observation that, "When summoned to give an account of our stewardship, we shall be called upon to answer for the use we have made ... of the means of relieving the wants [and] necessities of others," for example, is a direct summons to Christian activism.

So too was the emphasis Wilberforce placed on the importance of making the golden rule an integral part of one's everyday life. For Belmonte, this was the key to Wilberforce's social thought. "Let everyone regulate his conduct ... by the golden rule of doing to others as in similar circumstances we would have them do to us, and the path of duty will be clear before him," Wilberforce wrote, adding that if legislators kept the golden rule always before them "the decision of a legislature would scarcely any longer be doubtful." His Christian faith convinced him that opposition to ending the slave trade and slavery was based on human pride, one of the seven deadly sins.


http://www.insightmag.com/news/342435.html

[buzaw]

Are you sure you'd sign up?

Wilberforce became a Biblical fundie Wesleyan who believed in original sin and punishment of the unsaved in hell after his conversion which your link likens to the conversion of Charles Colson. His best friend, Henry Thornton, was a Biblical fundie Calvinist.

They also supported heavily to foreign missions and gospel evangelism, promoting Biblical fundamentals through social action.

Sounds quite Falwellian, doesn't it?

It is the lives and works of good Biblical folks like this that established the foundations of the free West and who are in the ongoing struggle to maintain them.

[truelies]

I cannot disagree that Wilberforce was a truly fine Christian. Charles Colson wrote a fairly good account of his work as a portion of 'Kingdom's in Conflict'. Of course its inspirations like his that got me and many others originally fired up about being Pro-Life. I have no doubt that if Wilberforce were somehow transplanted to the current day he would be standing with the NRTLC and not PP or NARAL.

I cannot disagree that Wilberforce was a truly fine Christian. Charles Colson wrote a fairly good account of his work as a portion of 'Kingdom's in Conflict'. Of course its inspirations like his that got me and many others originally fired up about being Pro-Life. I have no doubt that if Wilberforce were somehow transplanted to the current day he would be standing with the NRTLC and not PP or NARAL.


You may be right, who knows? But I think many can learn from him - not because of his beliefs, necessarily - but because he lived what he spoke.

He went after something he felt was unfair - but never in a violent manner. He did not seek to judge - only to assist.

If he DID take a pro-life stance today - I doubt he would picket and yell at young women entering clinics. I picture him more as the type who would assist as many as he could personally.

And I disagree with Buzz - I see nothing of the hateful Falwell in him at all.

[truelies]

[quote author=CherryBomb

He went after something he felt was unfair - but never in a violent manner. He did not seek to judge - only to assist.

If he DID take a pro-life stance today - I doubt he would picket and yell at young women entering clinics.

[/quote]

I don't know CB I have been out in front of GT's place maybe a 100 times over the years and YES on occassion I have seen pro-life newbies misbehave and in EVERY case be sidelined and corrected by there elders. The sort of person who gets off on feeling smug and superior never has amounted to much among the pro=lifers I have been around. Heck the REALLY smug and superior typically would not even let us show the films or literature at their Churches since and I quote one such 'our people are good and spirit filled. They simply don't need to be bothered with movies about people who have given themselves over to satan.'

Now I do know that Wilberforce made himself an utter pain in the butt to the Brit House of Commons until they finally did the right thing instead of the good for business thing.

I dont' think there is a need for the pro-lifers to show the movies, Silent Scream. etc. They are sensationalism and after it wears off - the animosity starts to grow from the feeling of being manipulated by that kind of thing.

I have a picture of you in my head. One man who works with the prolife movement, or did, anyway, in Wichita keeps popping into my head whenever you post something even vaugely pro-life.

I'm sure it is not you, this guy was a Presbyterian and he struck me as being forceful in public but a pretty decent guy under it all.

Anyway, I'm hijacking my own thread. BTW, I am hoping to get my book tomorrow - but if not - probably Thursday, the 2nd.

[buzaw]

And I disagree with Buzz - I see nothing of the hateful Falwell in him at all.


Hateful? Please document incidences of Falwell's hate. Wilburforce was a social Christian activist as is Falwell. Both believed in the fundamentals of the Bible. Both were in fundamentalist circles. Both served the cause of their country. Much of Falwell's work is in the background, such as his care for unwed mothers, his University which furnishes the nation with thousands of its best and most trustworty young citizens of principle.

That he as a preacher warns America of moral laxity is not imo hate. Wilburforce, indeed, would certainly be dismayed at the moral decline of America were he alive today.

And I disagree with Buzz - I see nothing of the hateful Falwell in him at all.


Hateful? Please document incidences of Falwell's hate. Wilburforce was a social Christian activist as is Falwell. Both believed in the fundamentals of the Bible. Both were in fundamentalist circles. Both served the cause of their country. Much of Falwell's work is in the background, such as his care for unwed mothers, his University which furnishes the nation with thousands of its best and most trustworty young citizens of principle.

That he as a preacher warns America of moral laxity is not imo hate. Wilburforce, indeed, would certainly be dismayed at the moral decline of America were he alive today.



Hate is in the eye of the perciever, as is beauty. I see hate in actions that alienate other human beings and actions that excuse judgementalism.

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.

-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat, quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition,

God will judge. Not FoulSmell.

His audacity and self-righteousness is not even fit to be mentioned in this thread with a truly incredible human being, devoid of the hatred and separatism FoulSmell exudes. IMO

[buzaw]

And I disagree with Buzz - I see nothing of the hateful Falwell in him at all.


Hateful? Please document incidences of Falwell's hate. Wilburforce was a social Christian activist as is Falwell. Both believed in the fundamentals of the Bible. Both were in fundamentalist circles. Both served the cause of their country. Much of Falwell's work is in the background, such as his care for unwed mothers, his University which furnishes the nation with thousands of its best and most trustworty young citizens of principle.

That he as a preacher warns America of moral laxity is not imo hate. Wilburforce, indeed, would certainly be dismayed at the moral decline of America were he alive today.



Hate is in the eye of the perciever, as is beauty. I see hate in actions that alienate other human beings and actions that excuse judgementalism.

I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.

-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, USA Today Chat, quoted from The Religious Freedom Coalition,

God will judge. Not FoulSmell.

His audacity and self-righteousness is not even fit to be mentioned in this thread with a truly incredible human being, devoid of the hatred and separatism FoulSmell exudes. IMO




You think Wilberforce would grant special priviledge minority status for homos and same sex marriage status??

Is that all you can come up with for documentation of Fallwel hate? Do you realize that the majority of Americans agree with him on this?

Imo, if Wilberforce were alive today, you'd likely hate him more than Fallwel for his brand of Biblical fundamental Wesleyanism. Wesleyans were a whole lot more strict in his day than they are today, madear.

I disagree with that. Wilberforce was not documented as being hateful to anyone - only helpful.

Falwell, on the other hand is very discriminatory and judgemental. If you can present evidence that Wilberforce acted in the same manner - present it - not your suppositions.

[buzaw]

I disagree with that. Wilberforce was not documented as being hateful to anyone - only helpful.

Falwell, on the other hand is very discriminatory and judgemental. If you can present evidence that Wilberforce acted in the same manner - present it - not your suppositions.

Were you a slaveholder, you'd have likely figured he was hateful and judgemental. Cummon, wumin, you've yet to document Fallwel's alleged hate. Wilberforce, like Falwell would consider you a lost soul, so you can't lay that exclusively on Falwell.

Tell me this. In what way iyo, is Falwell more discriminitory than Wilberforce was??

Tiger... you're getting more and more ridiculous by the day. You're gonna wind up in a padded cell before it's all over, if you don't chill out.

[Meshuga Mikey]

I disagree with that. Wilberforce was not documented as being hateful to anyone - only helpful.

Falwell, on the other hand is very discriminatory and judgemental. If you can present evidence that Wilberforce acted in the same manner - present it - not your suppositions.




DID IT EVER CROSS YOUR MIND that FALWELL LIVES IN A TIME that has fallen a LONG way morally from the relatively high STANDARDS that permeated society in Wilburforces day~!!

Imagine FALWELL 200 Years Ago,..... or Wilburforce today,.... PLAY AROUND WITH THAT ,.....FOR A WHILE~!!!!

[buzaw]

I disagree with that. Wilberforce was not documented as being hateful to anyone - only helpful.

Falwell, on the other hand is very discriminatory and judgemental. If you can present evidence that Wilberforce acted in the same manner - present it - not your suppositions.




DID IT EVER CROSS YOUR MIND that FALWELL LIVES IN A TIME that has fallen a LONG way morally from the relatively high STANDARDS that permeated society in Wilburforces day~!!

Imagine FALWELL 200 Years Ago,..... or Wilburforce today,.... PLAY AROUND WITH THAT ,.....FOR A WHILE~!!!!


The only Wilberforce Cherry knows about is the 200 year old version and she likes it. I do too, but if she liked him as he was 200 years ago and the same Wilber appeared today, he'd make her like Falwell in comparison to what she would think of Wilber's standards. He'd be a discriminatory homophobic Christianatzi who's Christian social agenda would be dangerous in her view and she'd likely call him Willyfart n soforth.

If Falwell were alive in Wilberforce's day, the two could well be good friends or work together for their common cause.

[guido]

I disagree with that. Wilberforce was not documented as being hateful to anyone - only helpful.

Falwell, on the other hand is very discriminatory and judgemental. If you can present evidence that Wilberforce acted in the same manner - present it - not your suppositions.




Interesting perspective, being that hate/beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it plausable that if he were alive today, that perceptions of his ideals would be different than they are today?

Add today's press, and today's liberal activism into the mix, and I'm willing to bet that the perception of Wilberforce would make Falwell look mild.

BTW, hatred often is, but never should be allowed to be, in the eye of the beholder. It is this philosophy that has lead to the lack of personal responsibilty so common in today's society. Hatred cannot be truly perceived by the beholder unless there is true hate. There cannot be true hatered without intent.

It's been my experience that most who point out another's hatred are doing so to invalidate the other person. Hate is an effective buzz word.