Recycling Poll

[kathleen]

I remember recycling being very popular a decade or so ago. Everyone jumped on the recycling bandwagon.

I'm wondering how many stayed on this wagon. ;D

Double plastic bags from this camp. Oh, yeah...and screw the seagulls and those soda can plastic thingies.

Lesbian Seagull

Engelbert Humperdink


Over rocks and trees and sand
Soaring over cliffs
And gently floating down to land
She proudly lifts her voice
To sound her mating call
And soon her mate responds by singing
Caw Caw Caw
Come with me

Lesbian Seagull

Settle down and rest with me

Fly with me lesbian seagull

To my little nest by the sea
With me that's where you belong with me
I know I can be strong when you're with me
She skims the water
At the new time to seek
Her fish and she emerges
With one squirming in her beak

She plays among the waves
And hides between the swells
She walks the beach at twilight

Searching for some shells
Come with me

Lesbian Seagull

Settle down and rest with me

Oh fly with me lesbian seagull

To my little nest by the sea

With me that's where you belong with me
I know I can be strong when you're -- you're with me

And in the evening
As they watch the setting sun
She loooks at her as if to say
The day is done
It's time to find their shelter

Hidden in the dunes

And fall asleep the
Music of the moon
You and me

Lesbian seagull

You just watch the world oh my

Just you and me lesbian seagull

Side by side with me 'till we die
('Till we die)
You and I
We can make it if we try
Our love will keep us flyin' high

Until we die...

[Julia]

Our city has a recycling program and we have a compost bin in our backyard.

We have two cans: a blue one to recycle aluminum, glass, paper, and most plastics that gets picked up one day a week, and a black one for garbage that gets picked up another day.

We do not have to separate the recyclables, because the city hires (mostly homeless) people to do that.

We recycle mainly because it is convenient, but we are aware of the amount of garbage we produce. But sometimes I am just too lazy to rinse out the can of whatever, so I just throw it in the garbage. <shrugs>

[kathleen]

Double plastic bags from this camp. Oh, yeah...and screw the seagulls and those soda can plastic thingies.


I figured that about you. ::)

The older generation is really resistant to change in their world. You never recycled before, why should you start now?

I'm surprised you took to computer technology. ;D

[kathleen]

Lesbian Seagull

Engelbert Humperdink

Stop cluttering up my thread with garbage. ;D

I lost the will to recycle when I was living on 7 acres and was doing a little yard maintenance. For approximately 6 months, I was filling up a 40 yard container (those are the big ones you see at the constructino sites) on a weekly basis with debris.

Stop cluttering up my thread with garbage. ;D


Beg pardon. Want me to delete it? ;D

[kathleen]

Beg pardon. Want me to delete it? ;D


No, I'm not that much of a bitch. ;D

Just don't do it again. Not on this thread. Please. :)

[truelies]

By and large household recycling is a feel good thingy for green yuppies totally lacking an economic rationale and in may cases harming the environment and depleting more natural resources than are saved.

No, I'm not that much of a bitch. ;D

Just don't do it again. Not on this thread. Please. :)


Okay. But give me a ringy dingy if this thread starts to fade and you need some new blood in it. 8)

[kathleen]

But sometimes I am just too lazy to rinse out the can of whatever, so I just throw it in the garbage. <shrugs>


Occasionally that happens with me too.

This is a small town so they don't pick up recycleables here. But there is a depot in town that takes almost everything (including old furniture and computers, etc) if you drop it off.

There is another depot which collects cans and bottles. You get a certain amount of money back for each item.

I try to collect most recycleables and make a trip every few months to drop them off at these depots.

We obviously don't have a compost pile now, but I did experiment with them in the past. When we move out even further into the country, I'd like to start one again. After my last experience with one I swore I would never do it again (there were tons of mice that took up residence within the pile and that completely grossed me out). When I do compost again, I'm going to set it up further away from the house and try to figure out a way to keep the little critters out of it.

[kathleen]

By and large household recycling is a feel good thingy for green yuppies totally lacking an economic rationale and in may cases harming the environment and depleting more natural resources than are saved.


Please elaborate. :)

[blurb]

We recycle with our garbage collection. Everything that we separate into recycle bins (cardboard, plastic, glass, metal, paper etc) gets picked up for free...we have to pay to dispose of everything that ends up in the garbage can, so it makes sense to recycle as much as possible.

[kathleen]

Okay. But give me a ringy dingy if this thread starts to fade and you need some new blood in it. 8)


You'll be the very first one I will think of to help me if the situation ever arises. ;D

[truelies]

For my household one of the biggest reducers of waste bulk has been cutting the local news rag back to Sundays only. News acquired online is probably less biased anyway.

[kathleen]

For my household one of the biggest reducers of waste bulk has been cutting the local news rag back to Sundays only. News acquired online is probably less biased anyway.


I've only been getting the weekend edition of our paper for years.

When I had daily delivery I found there were long periods of time I wouldn't even read them. It was a waste of money and paper to me.

[truelies]

Please elaborate. :)


Compare for example the full impact on the enviroment (including health risks) of Pampers vs cloth diapers. HINT: the greenies are all for cloth diapers- as a sadistic means of birth control I expect.

You want to reduce deforestation in the Third World build Nuke power plants there.

You want to reduce deforestation in the Third World build Nuke power plants there.


Why should we care what third world countries are doing to their forests?

Not to mention the fact if you put in nuke power plants, they'd rip of the uranium and turn them into weapons.

[truelies]

In closing let me say-

EARTH FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!

(We will strip mine the other Planets later)

[kathleen]

(We will strip mine the other Planets later)


Only if we manage to get to the other planets, even if we have yet to find one that is habitable. ;D

Don't get me wrong, I hope we eventually do reach other worlds. In the meantime this is the only house we have. If we burn it down, we have no where else to live.

[kathleen]

Why should we care what third world countries are doing to their forests?

Because it is going to effect us. It's like causing a ripple in a lake and watching it spread.

Not to mention the fact if you put in nuke power plants, they'd rip of the uranium and turn them into weapons.


Absolutely. It freaks me out enough to know that Pakistan has the bomb.

[truelies]

Why should we care what third world countries are doing to their forests?

Not to mention the fact if you put in nuke power plants, they'd rip of the uranium and turn them into weapons.


This was directed at those who Care in an effort to help them Care more effectively. In addition the most recent generation of Nuke power plant designs are much more difficult to get weapon grade radioactives from.

As a further safeguard any locals sharp enough to build a Nuke can be preventively detained at Gitmo or allowed to emmigrate to Canada.

Because it is going to effect us.

Oh, yes. The Greenhouse effect, right? ;D

How is it going to affect us? There's been a ban on logging so long that Kentucky is up to its yang in forests and ours are burning out of control from lack of maintenance.

[kathleen]

As a further safeguard any locals sharp enough to build a Nuke can be preventively detained at Gitmo or allowed to emmigrate to Canada.


You fucking bastard. ;D

In addition the most recent generation of Nuke power plant designs are much more difficult to get weapon grade radioactives from.



Yeah, tell that to the survivors if Chernobyl...if you can find any.

[truelies]

Only if we manage to get to the other planets, even if we have yet to find one that is habitable. ;D

Don't get me wrong, I hope we eventually do reach other worlds. In the meantime this is the only house we have. If we burn it down, we have no where else to live.



Both Mars and Venus could be terraformed with technology that is currently in hand. All that is lacking is will.

[kathleen]

Oh, yes. The Greenhouse effect, right? ;D

It's the butterfly effect but I think you understand the general idea.

How is it going to affect us? There's been a ban on logging so long that Kentucky is up to its yang in forests and ours are burning out of control from lack of maintenance.


So, why aren't you maintaining your forests? ;)

[truelies]

Yeah, tell that to the survivors if Chernobyl...if you can find any.


Chernobyl was designed by some of the least competent engineers on earth.

So, why aren't you maintaining your forests? ;)


Too many people chaining themselves to trees and standing in front of the chain saws whilst in limbo from the group forest hugs.

[kathleen]

Yeah, tell that to the survivors if Chernobyl...if you can find any.


Interesting story. When the accident first happened, the Soviets used crews of prisoners to contain the contamination. They did this by passing down buckets of sand to throw on the area.

It didn't take long for these prisoners to start dropping dead where they stood.

It didn't take long for these prisoners to start dropping dead where they stood.


Well, that certainly sounds like "low-level" radioactive material to me.

[kathleen]

Both Mars and Venus could be terraformed with technology that is currently in hand. All that is lacking is will.


Venus? Are you nuts? :o

I agree that Mars is a potential terraforming area. But I don't believe we have the technology to do it successfully, yet. We may be close - genetic, cloning, computer technology is advancing by leaps and bounds but I'm not convinced we have all the bugs worked out. Yet. ;D

[kathleen]

Well, that certainly sounds like "low-level" radioactive material to me.


It was a horrible horrible accident.

The government cover-up that followed made it even worse.

Both Mars and Venus could be terraformed with technology that is currently in hand. All that is lacking is will.


Jesus Christ, truelies...we can't even "land" on Mars without bouncing the projectile we send to it. You call that "technology that is currently in hand?" ;D

[truelies]

It's the butterfly effect...................

This effect amounts to an almost religious dread among green atheists of humans doing anything out of an irrational fear of adversely affecting Nature.

Anyway you people need to lighten up. We are all toast in December 2012 anyway.

[kathleen]

Too many people chaining themselves to trees and standing in front of the chain saws whilst in limbo from the group forest hugs.


Oh god, I hope this doesn't tempt Arod to come here and this turns into a week long argument of forest fires and their possible preventions. ;D

[kathleen]

Anyway you people need to lighten up. We are all toast in December 2012 anyway.


What's so special about that date?

[truelies]

Venus? Are you nuts? :o

I agree that Mars is a potential terraforming area. But I don't believe we have the technology to do it successfully, yet. We may be close - genetic, cloning, computer technology is advancing by leaps and bounds but I'm not convinced we have all the bugs worked out. Yet. ;D


Venus has stronger potential as a terraform site than does Mars. Read 'The Big Rain' by Poul Anderson (written in the 1950's BTW) though the roll played by the complex machinery he envisioned would be played by gene tailored alge to break down the dense carbon dioxide atmosphere. this could be accomplished in a 30 - 50 year time span and would cost less than my Country blew on the Vietnam War. the key is to allow no roll for the Management idiots at NASA (most of whom would be more suitably employeed at the USPS)

[jeny]

Compare for example the full impact on the enviroment (including health risks) of Pampers vs cloth diapers. HINT: the greenies are all for cloth diapers- as a sadistic means of birth control I expect.




Care to elaborate? ;D I use cloth diapers. My reasoning is two fold. One, it's cheaper. Two, there is something extremely disgusting to me about paper diapers that can actually hold, without leaks, the urine and poop of an infant for more than 12 hours. Ick.

[kathleen]

Venus has stronger potential as a terraform site than does Mars.

I can't believe you said this. I though you were better than this. <sadly shaking head> ;)

I understand you have tons more engineering experience than I do (in my case, it's virtually none ;D). I sense we are also both sci-fi nuts. Sci-fi is fine, it's more than that, it's great actually, and sometimes it can be scientifically insightful. I don't know if the book you mention is fiction or nonfiction, but it doesn't matter, I'm curious to read it anyway. I want to see what logical explanations the author comes up with to support the idea that Venus is easier to terreform than Mars.

The idea is laughable. Even if you could do something with the atmosphere, there is still the constant volcanic activity, increased gravity and high temperature to contend with.

Mars has none of these problems.

[truelies]

The idea is laughable. Even if you could do something with the atmosphere, there is still the constant volcanic activity, increased gravity and high temperature to contend with.

Mars has none of these problems.


Remember, Earth has constant volcanic activity also. The gravity on Venus is sightly less than that of Earth. Of course the temp is high now but such would not be the case once the algae had done their duty.

Venus DOES have greater Terraforming potential than Mars- that is eventually cbecoming an environment where a human can walk around bucknekked and breathe in comfort.

Anyway you people need to lighten up. We are all toast in December 2012 anyway.




You're kidding right? I have reservations for a trip to the Fulkland Islands. :P

[kathleen]

Venus DOES have greater Terraforming potential than Mars- that is eventually cbecoming an environment where a human can walk around bucknekked and breathe in comfort.


You are right, I did some research, it's higher pressure I'm thinking of, not gravity.

Also, the algae terraforming idea was originally proposed by Carl Sagan (love that guy, got a shelf on the bookshelf dedicated to some of his books). Apparently it was considered feasible, until more study revealed that the amount of atmosphere needed to be removed was too great for this plan to work.

So there. :P

BTW, there are quite a few people in various fields that do agree with me - Mars is easier to terraform than Venus.

[truelies]

You are right, I did some research, it's higher pressure I'm thinking of, not gravity.

Also, the algae terraforming idea was originally proposed by Carl Sagan (love that guy, got a shelf on the bookshelf dedicated to some of his books). Apparently it was considered feasible, until more study revealed that the amount of atmosphere needed to be removed was too great for this plan to work.

So there. :P

BTW, there are quite a few people in various fields that do agree with me - Mars is easier to terraform than Venus.


True the algae by itself would not be enough- Sagan always was one to over simlify things...............but combined with other techniques to blow off a big chunk of the atmosphere still has potential IMHO.

I can't believe you guys are talking about Venus and Mars. I think that's precisely the problem with recycling. No one can stay focused on the issue at hand...Earth.

[wendy]

Chernobyl was designed by some of the least competent engineers on earth.


How did you enjoy your stay?

[kathleen]

How did you enjoy your stay?


:o

[truelies]

How did you enjoy your stay?


Now that hurts :( Why are you being so mean lately? I thought we had all of our differences worked out. Still if that is your belief you should probably give up flying............................

[kathleen]

True the algae by itself would not be enough

So we have discovered.

Sagan always was one to over simlify things...............

In what capacity? One of his life's works was to bring science to the common people. He wrote books and did TV series to do just that. I don't get the sense that he dumbed down the ideas he presented but he did make science more approachable, easier to understand somehow. I think he was very successful in this regard.

His academic work is another subject. Yeah, I agree that perhaps he did tend to oversimlify things in the sense that he missed seeing the "big picture". He was almost obsessed with the idea of extraterrestrial life which kind of limited him. Nevertheless, he is well respected in the community and is known for some big contributions to more than one scientific field.

but combined with other techniques to blow off a big chunk of the atmosphere still has potential IMHO.


Yes, Coop and I were discussing that last night. It is possible to "blow off" a large amount of the atmosphere with say, an asteroid strike or something like that.

[kathleen]

I can't believe you guys are talking about Venus and Mars. I think that's precisely the problem with recycling. No one can stay focused on the issue at hand...Earth.


Yeah, just like the way you stay focused, right? ;D

Yeah, just like the way you stay focused, right? ;D


"Focused" should have been my nick. ;D

[truelies]

....................Coop and I were discussing that last night. It is possible to "blow off" a large amount of the atmosphere with say, an asteroid strike or something like that.


Can you imagine the film footage for the Discovery Channel? :o

[kathleen]

Can you imagine the film footage for the Discovery Channel? :o


We just have to figure out a way to make it happen. That's all. ;D

[guido]

I remember recycling being very popular a decade or so ago. Everyone jumped on the recycling bandwagon.

I'm wondering how many stayed on this wagon. ;D


We are forced to either recycle, or not recycle but still pay for it.

[Larry_Oldtimer]

Venus has stronger potential as a terraform site than does Mars. Read 'The Big Rain' by Poul Anderson (written in the 1950's BTW) though the roll played by the complex machinery he envisioned would be played by gene tailored alge to break down the dense carbon dioxide atmosphere. this could be accomplished in a 30 - 50 year time span and would cost less than my Country blew on the Vietnam War. the key is to allow no roll for the Management idiots at NASA (most of whom would be more suitably employeed at the USPS)


When that book was written, scientists thought that the temperature on Venus was 120-125 degrees F and that the cloud cover was water vapor. Since then they have learned that the temperature is over 700 degrees F and the clouds are sulpheric acid. Not exactly the same thing at all. What you say about NASA IS true, however.

[MADG]

When that book was written, scientists thought that the temperature on Venus was 120-125 degrees F and that the cloud cover was water vapor. Since then they have learned that the temperature is over 700 degrees F and the clouds are sulpheric acid. Not exactly the same thing at all. What you say about NASA IS true, however.


Not to mention the grueling radiation...

[MADG]

Okay… I’m quasi-green


I think it sucks that:

… 98% of the natural woodlands in the US have been eradicated.

… the same is likely to happen to the rain forests… and to the coral… and to the oceans… and to the spotted whale owls… and to everything else we touch.

(Note that our greatest contribution to Antarctica has been FILTH!!!… ‘nuf said?)

… certain persons seem to think that SNOWMOBILES are part of the “natural landscape.”

… Americans have a “disposable lifestyle”…

… (and so on)…

Suffice to say that I am in favor of RIGID protection of our surviving natural resources… and I consider that to be a classically CONSERVATIVE outlook… as well as a planet-friendly (and therefore PEOPLE-friendly) perspective.

(Just because you happen to be a fisherman doesn’t mean that you get to catch ALL of the fish… you have to let the fish win a few… or else…)

I make a half-vast effort at recycling, and convince myself that that is better than no effort at all. I return returnables, and bind up magazines and newspapers… separately… because I would get fined if I didn’t.

Curiously… my town had a problem with TOO MUCH recycling. In a coalition with other towns, we had made an agreement with a local trash-burning power-producing facility… and mandatory recycling was causing us to default on our trash-production quotas… and I SWEAR that I am NOT making this up…

That was just perfect for a lazy quasi-green like myself… nature is a compost heap… and I defecate in the woods at every opportunity…

I would like to buy vast swaths of rainforest and protect them with automatic weapons… but that’s just me…


One more thing…

I bought a bicycle from a friend to help out on his relocation… and am now the not-so-proud owner of one of the GAYEST bicycles on record… (Pee Wee Herman’s bicycle was COOL… mine is just GAY… rainbow tassels dangling from the handlebars would be an IMPROVEMENT… it’s THAT gay…)

I once rode it to the corner and back… and managed to avoid breaking an elbow… (damn rollerblades)… for me to ride that queer machine AGAIN would be…

… RECYCLING!

;D

[kathleen]

We are forced to either recycle, or not recycle but still pay for it.


If it was strickly voluntary, would you do it?

[jeny]

We recycle. We get money for cans and glass. ALthough you CAN put cans and glass out front to be picked up on garbage day, we bag the cans and glass and bring them in so we get the money for them. We put plastic and newspaper (magazines and other paper stuff) out front to be picked up.

We also have a green recycling for yard clippings and stuff, they pick that up front on garbage day too.

We also use cloth diapers on ALexa except for overnight and if we go out on errands that are going to take a long time. But even going out with cloth diapers are not that bad to deal with honestly. If she has disposibles on too much, she gets a rash so I'm glad I decided to ue cloth anyway.

We don't have a compost pile, I DID try it last year but it didn't work out that well, it attaracted racoons. There is a free class offered by the city, I might take it and try again because it would be great to have for our gardens and stuff. Plus, with all our fruit trees, we have A LOT of excess fruit. SInce green waste is recycled by the city, it's not really a conservation issue though, it would just be convenient to have.

[MADG]

[...] We don't have a compost pile, I DID try it last year but it didn't work out that well, it attaracted racoons. [...]

You can compost raccoons...

(No... really... you can...)

:)

[guido]

If it was strickly voluntary, would you do it?


Not to the extent that I do it now.

[jeny]

You can compost raccoons...

(No... really... you can...)

:)




I'm pretty sure that it's illegal to kill or even relocate racoons in this part of CA. I'm serious. ;)

[guido]

I'm pretty sure that it's illegal to kill or even relocate racoons in this part of CA. I'm serious. ;)


I've had three racoons in my attic almost all winter. Pest control charges at least 75 dollars PER racoon to trap, and at least another 75 PER racoon for disposal/relocation.

At 150 dollars PER racoon, I'd pay the fine and get it overwith. I've trapped two of them...........just got the second one this morning, and I'll be leaving for the woods as soon as I'm done with this post.

I had the live trap on the porch roof, and he slid off and broke the handle off the trap............and THIS one is mean as a snake.