Anyone Familiar With This..........???

[Tiger]

I am currently fighting local rezoning ordinances that would prohibit homesites on rural ground on acreage less than a 40 acre tract.

They are calling it FArmland Preservation.

It's not.

A farmer who owns a quarter section (160 acres) and needs to make some money (medical bills, college, etc) and only has his land - will need to sell off at least a 40 acre parcel - if his buyer wants to build on it.

I understand that similar legislation has been enacted in the EAst - and need some instances of negative results.

The biggest pushers here are some local (very stupid) farmers. They dont' realise they are cutting their own throats. They just dont' want neighbors.

This affects me directly - as it will curttail my subdividing and selling of my own land - which is what I bought it for in the first place. But I can jump through the subdivision hoops if need be - the farmers can't.

The value of farmland is much less per acre than the value of developmental land. The same farmer I mentioned above could conceivably sell off 2 - 5 acre tracks - subject to zoning and code provisions and make more money than he could selling a 40 acre minimum - and much less farm ground will be taken out of production.

We don't have any urban sprawl here - but controlling growth is only smart. We have a bunch of yahoo's sitting on the board and I have spoken a number of times - but someone is behind the scenes pushing harder in the other direction. This is getting ready to come to a head and I badly could use some personal experiences that show a negative result from this kind of "large lot" restriction.

I have already suggested and detailed "Right to Farm" ordinances that could be adopted by the county - and although they would not create any laws not already codified by the State - they would help city-dwellers understand the quirks of country life. Combines take precedence on roadways, etc.

So if ANY of you have ANY knowledge of this kind of thing NOT working in any areas - please let me know so I can get the details and use them.

Okay?

Anyone?

I've had experience in this area. The people who pay the most in fees to the zoning divisions are the ones who get what they "need."

I am currently fighting local rezoning ordinances that would prohibit homesites on rural ground on acreage less than a 40 acre tract.

They are calling it FArmland Preservation.

It's not.

A farmer who owns a quarter section (160 acres) and needs to make some money (medical bills, college, etc) and only has his land - will need to sell off at least a 40 acre parcel - if his buyer wants to build on it.

I understand that similar legislation has been enacted in the EAst - and need some instances of negative results.

The biggest pushers here are some local (very stupid) farmers. They dont' realise they are cutting their own throats. They just dont' want neighbors.

This affects me directly - as it will curttail my subdividing and selling of my own land - which is what I bought it for in the first place. But I can jump through the subdivision hoops if need be - the farmers can't.

The value of farmland is much less per acre than the value of developmental land. The same farmer I mentioned above could conceivably sell off 2 - 5 acre tracks - subject to zoning and code provisions and make more money than he could selling a 40 acre minimum - and much less farm ground will be taken out of production.

We don't have any urban sprawl here - but controlling growth is only smart. We have a bunch of yahoo's sitting on the board and I have spoken a number of times - but someone is behind the scenes pushing harder in the other direction. This is getting ready to come to a head and I badly could use some personal experiences that show a negative result from this kind of "large lot" restriction.

I have already suggested and detailed "Right to Farm" ordinances that could be adopted by the county - and although they would not create any laws not already codified by the State - they would help city-dwellers understand the quirks of country life. Combines take precedence on roadways, etc.

So if ANY of you have ANY knowledge of this kind of thing NOT working in any areas - please let me know so I can get the details and use them.

Okay?

Anyone?



I'm interested in the same thing as a matter of fact. The guy behind us has developed his land into 5-acre tracts at $10,000 per acre and is selling his lots like crazy. I've been toying with the idea here. If he got zoning I think I can too. I'll check into it and see what I can find but things might be different here than in Kansas.

I'm interested in the same thing as a matter of fact. The guy behind us has developed his land into 5-acre tracts at $10,000 per acre and is selling his lots like crazy. I've been toying with the idea here. If he got zoning I think I can too. I'll check into it and see what I can find but things might be different here than in Kansas.


Check ground water for previous undetected traces of dioxins. Also nearby chemical plant contaminants may seep into groundwater. This would diminish the value of the investment. You may need to see if your site is on the superfund list of sites. However, this program has been cut by the Bush administration, so the cleanup may be delayed.

Check ground water for previous undetected traces of dioxins. Also nearby chemical plant contaminants may seep into groundwater. This would diminish the value of the investment. You may need to see if your site is on the superfund list of sites. However, this program has been cut by the Bush administration, so the cleanup may be delayed.



Ya think? ;D


I'm sitting on 2 mil and it's all paid for. 8)

Ya think? ;D


I'm sitting on 2 mil and it's all paid for. 8)


Daddy? :o

Daddy? :o



Son? ;D

[tileman]

Ya think? ;D


I'm sitting on 2 mil and it's all paid for. 8)


Damn bud.....dump it and retire.......and move out of the state in case the cowshit contaminated the land....Going by the WWF mindset of the elections Hillery will be president in a few years.... ;D (They seem to be taking pride in how ridiculous they can make our choices.. :P)

[the bib]

There's been a huge backlash against development in NJ ... our farmland preservation is called green acres ... we pay extra taxes to buy up and preserve the land.

NJ is the highest density state in the nation, northern nj has been pretty much black topped east of Rt 287 and the developers are salivating over north central and west.

NJ is about 80 miles wide from bridge to gap ... and 60 of it is the longest parking lot in the world during commuter hours.

There has been a HUGE backlash by the people and I think the planning boards are now skeered for their lives.

As a result,

In the past few years the codes have gone from 1/2 acre and acre to 2 acre and 5 acre minimums in many places ... plus the dedicated land ...

it just may be that north central and north west may not afterall,

looking like eastern NJ .... AKA the crotch of the world.

[Tiger]

I'm interested in the same thing as a matter of fact. The guy behind us has developed his land into 5-acre tracts at $10,000 per acre and is selling his lots like crazy. I've been toying with the idea here. If he got zoning I think I can too. I'll check into it and see what I can find but things might be different here than in Kansas.



I think you have a little gold mine you are sitting on there. Do it now - before the regulations are in place. YOur acreage is priced higher even though it is less productive (farm wise).

Here is a couple of realtors and you should take a look at their site and ask them for a contract to look over concerning some of their investments. Dont' mention me. I'd just as soon see a bear comin as Jay and Dana - but that's another story.

They handle buying and dividing farms and ranches in your area and althroughout TX. They do in on a 'contract for deed' basis and finance it themselves. Look at their contract and base your own on it.

Get what you can for a down and finance the rest. Good return and any improvements stay with the land (you get 'em) when the buyers default. Happens a lot. These guys fly all over in their little helicopters and do shit like that.

There is a HUGE market in your area for that.

We can't do it here.

You are lucky.

http://www.creeksiderural.com/


Do it. I'll help you with anything I can.

Did you know if you stood everyone in the United States in a one foot by one foot space, that we would all fit within that space in the size of Rhode Island?

[Tiger]

There's been a huge backlash against development in NJ ... our farmland preservation is called green acres ... we pay extra taxes to buy up and preserve the land.

NJ is the highest density state in the nation, northern nj has been pretty much black topped east of Rt 287 and the developers are salivating over north central and west.

NJ is about 80 miles wide from bridge to gap ... and 60 of it is the longest parking lot in the world during commuter hours.

There has been a HUGE backlash by the people and I think the planning boards are now skeered for their lives.

As a result,

In the past few years the codes have gone from 1/2 acre and acre to 2 acre and 5 acre minimums in many places ... plus the dedicated land ...

it just may be that north central and north west may not afterall,

looking like eastern NJ .... AKA the crotch of the world.







This is EXACTLY what I need.

Do you know of any specific counties that are revising lot size upward?

I know what you are talking about. It is a mess. I have had some farmers calling me since I have taken this on - asking just how to stop it.

I wish I could give them better advice - but you know politics.

We don't even have a land crunch here. We have over 900 square miles of farmland in the county - much of the land they want to restrict is NOT even in production.

It is one more thing that will devastate the farmer - not being allowed to sell one's property is atrocious!

Imagine if that happened in town. To a city dweller?

But the farmers here dont' like to speak in public. A couple will - but they just don't know the ins and outs.

I have sworn not to do this kind of thing again - but it is just so unfair - not to mention unAmerican.

If you know of any specific counties that I can contact I would be greatly appreciative.

I think you have a little gold mine you are sitting on there. Do it now - before the regulations are in place. YOur acreage is priced higher even though it is less productive (farm wise).

Here is a couple of realtors and you should take a look at their site and ask them for a contract to look over concerning some of their investments. Dont' mention me. I'd just as soon see a bear comin as Jay and Dana - but that's another story.

They handle buying and dividing farms and ranches in your area and althroughout TX. They do in on a 'contract for deed' basis and finance it themselves. Look at their contract and base your own on it.

Get what you can for a down and finance the rest. Good return and any improvements stay with the land (you get 'em) when the buyers default. Happens a lot. These guys fly all over in their little helicopters and do shit like that.

There is a HUGE market in your area for that.

We can't do it here.

You are lucky.

http://www.creeksiderural.com/


Do it. I'll help you with anything I can.



That 10 grand per acre is based on 'developing' the land into 5 acre tracts with roads, utilities, landscaping, etc. Takes a lot of money to do that. I think about it, if one more land owner out here near me goes that route I may do it. Right now the land is about 4 thousand an acre like it is.

Thanks for the leads. :)

Did you know if you stood everyone in the United States in a one foot by one foot space, that we would all fit within that space in the size of Rhode Island?



No fooling? <jot> <jot> <jot>. I'll use that at the next party. ;D

That 10 grand per acre is based on 'developing' the land into 5 acre tracts with roads, utilities, landscaping, etc. Takes a lot of money to do that. I think about it, if one more land owner out here near me goes that route I may do it. Right now the land is about 4 thousand an acre like it is.

Thanks for the leads. :)


$4,000 an acre? ROTMFFLMMFAO!! You couldn't buy a dirt clod for that here!!

[ilovelucy]

$1000 - $1500 an acre of beautiful rolling farmland here....Plus, you are within a easy commute to Nashville.....(one hour each way).....No state income tax yet, and people are actually nice to each other (well, at least to their face....)

[Tiger]

That 10 grand per acre is based on 'developing' the land into 5 acre tracts with roads, utilities, landscaping, etc. Takes a lot of money to do that. I think about it, if one more land owner out here near me goes that route I may do it. Right now the land is about 4 thousand an acre like it is.

Thanks for the leads. :)



Create the easements. Forget the roads and utilities.

Let the buyers do that. IF you do - they will expect you to maintain them.

Unless you want to implement covenants - but check out Jay and Dana's properties. They make a fortune. That is literal.

They dont do Jack Shit beyond the surveying.

TX is pretty lenient about that kind of thing.

You could conceivably sell the same track of land 10 times - each time getting the money - and then getting the land back too. Win win. I have seriously thought of doing that in your area because of the flexibility.

Let me know.

[Tiger]

$1000 - $1500 an acre of beautiful rolling farmland here....Plus, you are within a easy commute to Nashville.....(one hour each way).....No state income tax yet, and people are actually nice to each other (well, at least to their face....)



Good prices. Sounds beautiful.

[Persephone]

$4,000 an acre? ROTMFFLMMFAO!! You couldn't buy a dirt clod for that here!!


You just need to move to The South. Land is MUCH cheaper than $4,000 an acre here. Unless you buy a lot at a private lake, of course. :)

[Observer]

About the only form of life lower than a county planner is a land "developer".

[Tiger]

$4,000 an acre? ROTMFFLMMFAO!! You couldn't buy a dirt clod for that here!!



Bastard.

I'm still pissed because you told me what my house would be worth there.

And it STILL has not sold HERE!!!


Goddamit.

[Tiger]

About the only form of life lower than a county planner is a land "developer".



Fuck you!


You damn well better be kidding.

About the only form of life lower than a county planner is a land "developer".



I heard on a program last night Shirley McLaine (sp) owns 8,000 acres ... said in New Mexico you have to buy up the whole 'land grant' which she did. 8,000 acres, wow!

[Observer]

I am not kidding at all.

Developers do nothing but take tracts of land, chop them up, jack up prices and build ugly little subdivisions on them. People who are stupid enough to buy from them get ripped off because they buy at hugely inflated prices, the countryside is marred forever, and nobody wins... except the "developer".

I have seen it happen countless times here. Land that a few years ago was 400 to 2000 dollars an acre is now 65000 dollars an acre. People whose families have lived here for 400 years can't afford to buy a piece of dirt large enough to pass on to their kids.

It is really disgusting.

$4,000 an acre? ROTMFFLMMFAO!! You couldn't buy a dirt clod for that here!!



Yeah I know that's why I'm in Texas. Years ago I paid $30,000 for a lot in the Phoenix area just to build a house on ... I couldn't afford the house and sold the lot. It had no trees, nothing but rock and gravel and dirt. It was a 'lot'!! What's that, 200 feet x 200 feet?

I will never understand Calfornia realty, supply and demand I guess huh?

I will never understand Calfornia realty, supply and demand I guess huh?


I'll never understand it either. The only time I haven't lost my balls on California real estate was the last time...which means I'm probably hosed by the IRS. :o

I am not kidding at all.

Developers do nothing but take tracts of land, chop them up, jack up prices and build ugly little subdivisions on them. People who are stupid enough to buy from them get ripped off because they buy at hugely inflated prices, the countryside is marred forever, and nobody wins... except the "developer".

I have seen it happen countless times here. Land that a few years ago was 400 to 2000 dollars an acre is now 65000 and acre. People whose families have lived here for 400 years can't afford to buy a piece of dirt large enough to pass on to their kids.

It is really disgusting.



Most of the people who buy out here on these developments only want five acres to keep a horse or two, most have lived in town and couldn't or wouldn't pay to buy 200 or 300 acres of farmland just to keep a couple of horses nor pay the cheaper price per acre ... they just want a small place with a few acres and if it wasn't for the developer they wouldn't get what they want and that is the key, the price of the land for what ever the buyer will pay.

You can't stop progress ... 20 years ago this was way out of town, now the town is coming out this way ... people need a place to live, it doesn't make sense anymore to raise cattle which is what they do here, or chickens for the processors, it makes more sense to divide the land up which if I don't do it the next owner will.

[kathleen]

$4,000 an acre? ROTMFFLMMFAO!! You couldn't buy a dirt clod for that here!!


Goes to show how screwed up California really is. ;)

[kathleen]

I will never understand Calfornia realty, supply and demand I guess huh?


I imagine it's like that in any populated area of the country.

Sigh. Quality of life isn't about getting the best real estate in a dirty, stinking, polluted city. It's like watching mice in a maze or ants in an anthill.

I choose to opt out of that rat race. I'll take your cows and farm over LA anyday, Lonestar. ;D

I imagine it's like that in any populated area of the country.

Sigh. Quality of life isn't about getting the best real estate in a dirty, stinking, polluted city. It's like watching mice in a maze or ants in an anthill.

I choose to opt out of that rat race. I'll take your cows and farm over LA anyday, Lonestar. ;D



We're on the same page dear. :)

[kathleen]

We're on the same page dear. :)


I know. Nice to know there are kindred souls out there.

You can keep the queer steer though. I want nothing to do with that freak of nature. ;)

I know. Nice to know there are kindred souls out there.

You can keep the queer steer though. I want nothing to do with that freak of nature. ;)



People ate him at McDonald's. ;D

[ilovelucy]

McDonald's????

McDonald's????



Hamburger ... beef ... ;D

[ilovelucy]

Well, I know, but he seemed so happy there at your place... ;D

Well, I know, but he seemed so happy there at your place... ;D




He was too 'artsy' for my taste. ;D

[kathleen]

He was too 'artsy' for my taste. ;D


Started rearranging the pasture, did he? ;D

[ilovelucy]

;D

[Observer]

Most of the people who buy out here on these developments only want five acres to keep a horse or two, most have lived in town and couldn't or wouldn't pay to buy 200 or 300 acres of farmland just to keep a couple of horses nor pay the cheaper price per acre ... they just want a small place with a few acres and if it wasn't for the developer they wouldn't get what they want and that is the key, the price of the land for what ever the buyer will pay.

You can't stop progress ... 20 years ago this was way out of town, now the town is coming out this way ... people need a place to live, it doesn't make sense anymore to raise cattle which is what they do here, or chickens for the processors, it makes more sense to divide the land up which if I don't do it the next owner will.

I understand your point. Unfortunately, you CAN'T stop "progress". As little as ten years ago, this land was crawling with Elk, Antelope, Bear and Cougar. Now, I can count the number of cougar in the area on my fingers. Every year, the bear population dwindles. Many get shot because they have to come into town to forage for food. The elk herds are thinning and antelope are few and far between.

Families that have farmed the same piece of land for centuries are being driven out because "developers" are squeezing them out and buying politicians who slap restriction after restriction on them so they just give up because they can't afford the legal battles. Where kids grew up for generations riding and tracking and herding cattle and sheep are now "residential" areas full of million dollar houses. Homes that have been here for a hundred or more years (adobe houses last forever if they are maintained) are considered eyesores by the refugees from New York, California, and other places who come here to escape the filth and poison of their own home states.

The water tables are shrinking fast because of overuse from the population increase. "Developers" are killing this area and they don't care as long as they make their bucks.

Tiger once commented that she didn't like seeing trailers next to million dollar homes. It didn't seem to occur to her that for many people, because of jacked up land prices and outrageous construction costs, a trailer and a quarter acre of dirt is the best they can do if they want to stay in the land of their ancestors. Many folks find the million dollar homes (around here a million dollar house is on the cheap side) to be far more offensive than the trailers. You won't find any of the local farmers living in them. Most of them are empty at least six months out of the year. The owners show up when it gets too hot or too cold or too crowded wherever they live the rest of the time.

Another thing that happens is the "developers" try to control the "planners" so they dictate not only what goes on in their little developments, but what everyone else does with their land as well. It affect their "property values", you know. Heaven forbid someone should want to do something on their own land that the "developers" don't like. They might not be able to squeese every possible dime out of the next sucker from New York who buys from them.

I can honestly say that over the years, I have met exactly one land developer who wasn't scum, who actually cared about the area and its people and was willing to put the good of the land itself and the people on it before the Dollar signs.

They're parasites.

[ilovelucy]

Observer.

This sounds so sad because NM is such a beautiful place....

[Observer]

It is sad, Lucy. It's all about greed.

[ilovelucy]

You have location,location, location since NM is so popular. We don't have this here, really. No famous Hollywood stars want to buy up Tennessee, just a few C&W stars in and around Nashville area and a few up where I live, where land prices are pretty high because we are known as resort material...To me it is a joke because I grew up here and in Alabama....Alabama, by the way is a great buy away from the coast. Of course, if the ticks don't kill you young, the mosquitoes will.... ;D

[Tiger]

I am not kidding at all.

Developers do nothing but take tracts of land, chop them up, jack up prices and build ugly little subdivisions on them. People who are stupid enough to buy from them get ripped off because they buy at hugely inflated prices, the countryside is marred forever, and nobody wins... except the "developer".


As usual, you have your head up your ass and are talking about something you have NO knowledge of. ::) If you view it that way - you likely are simply a poor soul steeped in "victim mentality". If it were not for the developers - folks would be living in VERY bad conditions.

I have seen it happen countless times here. Land that a few years ago was 400 to 2000 dollars an acre is now 65000 dollars an acre. People whose families have lived here for 400 years can't afford to buy a piece of dirt large enough to pass on to their kids.


That is the most anti-American sentiment I have heard in a long time. As if someone who can't afford something should get it for free. ::) You're just another Democrap! America is built upon Capitalism - a supply and demand market. Maybe the free-loaders you are talking about need to get off their asses - if they want to compete in the market????



It is really disgusting.




I'll tell you what's REALLY disgusting.

People who pry into other's private lives and affairs as a business. People who snoop around just trying to find an illicit affair that will destroy a marriage - just to make a buck.

There is NO way you can compare the integrity of those building America with someone whose daily life makes them the slime of the earth.

[Tiger]

I understand your point. Unfortunately, you CAN'T stop "progress". As little as ten years ago, this land was crawling with Elk, Antelope, Bear and Cougar. Now, I can count the number of cougar in the area on my fingers. Every year, the bear population dwindles. Many get shot because they have to come into town to forage for food. The elk herds are thinning and antelope are few and far between.

So ban or restrict hunting licenses stupid. NM does not have the urban sprawl you are indicating. If the bears are coming into town - it is because they have been rewarded on provious trips with human food - that has nothing to do with not having food in the wild.

Families that have farmed the same piece of land for centuries are being driven out because "developers" are squeezing them out and buying politicians who slap restriction after restriction on them so they just give up because they can't afford the legal battles.

Which of course, you have NO proof of. Just the disgruntled moans and groans from the free-loaders who expect time to stand still for them while they sit on their asses and collect a subsidy check from the government for what they did not produce. Any business - be it farm or otherwise - that cannot stand on its own two feet - needs to be reassesed. Builders do not have the government protecting them and giving them money if their houses do not sell. Don't tell me - Klintoon was your big hero. ::)

Where kids grew up for generations riding and tracking and herding cattle and sheep are now "residential" areas full of million dollar houses. Homes that have been here for a hundred or more years (adobe houses last forever if they are maintained) are considered eyesores by the refugees from New York, California, and other places who come here to escape the filth and poison of their own home states.

The water tables are shrinking fast because of overuse from the population increase. "Developers" are killing this area and they don't care as long as they make their bucks.

No - the developers are supplying a 'need' and are being paid for it. That is what Capitalism is all about. You sound like a dyed-in-the-wool Commie. If the people did not want and could not afford the housing - it would NOT sell. Use your brain for a change instead of whining about what you do not have. ::)

Tiger once commented that she didn't like seeing trailers next to million dollar homes. It didn't seem to occur to her that for many people, because of jacked up land prices and outrageous construction costs, a trailer and a quarter acre of dirt is the best they can do if they want to stay in the land of their ancestors.

The land of their ancestors???? Give me a fucking break. This is NOT Communist China. Here we make our own way in the world. Nothing is guaranteed to those who want something for nothing. No one here in America is entitled to a piece of land - if they do not get off their asses and earn it.

I know about folks like you. Folks who don't like any kind of progress and continuity. Your bleeding-heart speech is stupid and only encourages dead-beats.

Many folks find the million dollar homes (around here a million dollar house is on the cheap side) to be far more offensive than the trailers. You won't find any of the local farmers living in them. Most of them are empty at least six months out of the year. The owners show up when it gets too hot or too cold or too crowded wherever they live the rest of the time.

And pump money into YOUR local community. How horrible. ::)

Another thing that happens is the "developers" try to control the "planners" so they dictate not only what goes on in their little developments, but what everyone else does with their land as well. It affect their "property values", you know. Heaven forbid someone should want to do something on their own land that the "developers" don't like. They might not be able to squeese every possible dime out of the next sucker from New York who buys from them.

THen get off your lazy ass and get on the planning board. I have no sympathy for whiners that do nothing but complain how badly things are run - but are too fucking lazy to do anything but mouth-off. I can see you know nothing about this subject - you simply are blowing and going AGAIN. Don't you have ANY self-respect?

I can honestly say that over the years, I have met exactly one land developer who wasn't scum, who actually cared about the area and its people and was willing to put the good of the land itself and the people on it before the Dollar signs.

They're parasites.



I can honestly say that over the years I have NEVER met a so-called Private Investigator who was not scum. Not a one!

It goes with the territory. Making a buck by making other lives miserable. Interfering. Interrupting. Snooping where they are not wanted.

They are pathetic. Truly pathetic.

[Tiger]

You have location,location, location since NM is so popular. We don't have this here, really. No famous Hollywood stars want to buy up Tennessee, just a few C&W stars in and around Nashville area and a few up where I live, where land prices are pretty high because we are known as resort material...To me it is a joke because I grew up here and in Alabama....Alabama, by the way is a great buy away from the coast. Of course, if the ticks don't kill you young, the mosquitoes will.... ;D



NM is not all that great. Some of the Nothern part is kind of pretty - and I suppose it attracts some who like a SouthWestern feel - but it is no prize.

You have a lot better scenery in TN and try visiting the reservations in NM sometime. Talk about a bunch of fucking weirdos. They treat their animals like shit. I stopped to gas up in one area and saw a mother dog with her little of pups. All of them were nearly starved to death - and there were a group of semi-Mexican, semi-Indian men sitting on a bench right beside them. I asked if anyone ever fed the dogs. They laughed. Said they were "just dogs".

I couldn't get out of that Hell Hole fast enough. If someone takes their money and their land - they will be doing America a favor.

The natives to that area are pretty much sickos. IMHO of course. :)

It is sad, Lucy. It's all about greed.


Now I know you're a smart man and even though you said this as sarcasm this is exactly what the world is about ... greed. The haves and have nots, with money you can buy anything. For gosh sacks why do you think they want a global society? For the money and the profits, the business and the capitalization of the world. So what if there are poor people, cheaper labor, feed them a little, house them a little and insure there are workers for the money making global world which exists for one purpose, to make a buck. Money is God and their motto is "Greed is good".

[Observer]

Typical Tiger responses. She doesn't like what she hears, so she attacks the messenger.

Of course, you can't deny the truth of what I say, so I guess you have little recourse. In so doing, though, you make it clear to all that YOU don't have a clue.

People here would live in terrible conditions without developers? That is one of the most foolish statements you have ever made here (and you have made quite a few). This valley has been settled for over 5 centuries. It did quite well before the land developers moved in and started ripping it apart in the 80s and 90s. The impact they have had on the land and the people is frightening.

Freeloaders... You who sit around and try to find ways to sell the same piece of land 10 times are calling the farmers and ranchers around here who start working before sunrise and don't quit until dark, freeloaders? What a joke you are. Around here folks refer to a regular workday as going from "can't see to can't see". Even the town dwellers almost without fail, work two or more jobs just to stay afloat because of what the "developers" have done to the area. For you to call these folks freeloaders just displays your contempt for those who care about more than how to make a fast buck.

Developers have done nothing to improve the lives of the local folk. I am not even suggesting they should. I am saying they shouldn't go out of their way to destroy those lives just so they can make a few dollars.

It is obvious I struck nerve here. What's the matter, Tiger? Did I hit a little too close to home?

[Tiger]

Typical Tiger responses. She doesn't like what she hears, so she attacks the messenger.

Of course, you can't deny the truth of what I say, so I guess you have little recourse. In so doing, though, you make it clear to all that YOU don't have a clue.

People here would live in terrible conditions without developers? That is one of the most foolish statements you have ever made here (and you have made quite a few). This valley has been settled for over 5 centuries. It did quite well before the land developers moved in and started ripping it apart in the 80s and 90s. The impact they have had on the land and the people is frightening.

You fool. Go live in an adobe hut with no plumbing or running water then. The only folks frightened by progress and better living conditions for humans are those who are living in the past with no vision of the future and a fear of progress. I really pity you.

Freeloaders... You who sit around and try to find ways to sell the same piece of land 10 times are calling the farmers and ranchers around here who start working before sunrise and don't quit until dark, freeloaders? What a joke you are. Around here folks refer to a regular workday as going from "can't see to can't see".

Are you saying that the farmers there have no modern farm equipment? That they are NOT allowed to take part in govt. subsidies? Whatever! ::) I have seen them - I live with farmers - for God's sake dumbass - I have a fucking farm! You are just picking on folks with ambition because you sit and pry into others lives and know what a slime bucket you are. You try and make honest folks sound like you and your ilk. You are a total Communist.

Even the town dwellers almost without fail, work two or more jobs just to stay afloat because of what the "developers" have done to the area. For you to call these folks freeloaders just displays your contempt for those who care about more than how to make a fast buck.

Right. ::) You say that as you pry into personal affairs of others - to make a buck. How pathetic is that?

Developers have done nothing to improve the lives of the local folk. I am not even suggesting they should. I am saying they shouldn't go out of their way to destroy those lives just so they can make a few dollars.

It is obvious I struck nerve here. What's the matter, Tiger? Did I hit a little too close to home?





You didn't strike a nerve as much as you fell flat on your face, again. Developers and builders have gone out of their way to implement a better lifestyle for others.

You may want to live in an adobe hut - but you are strange anyway. You conveniently forget to mention that if the land values are "so high" - then the little farmer you are weeping for - has one hell of a lot of equity that they would not have had originally. ::)

Had our forefathers come to this country - seen the Indians and said - "Gee, they look so content in their little TeePees scalping, and hunting with spears and the like - let's not put their land to a better use" - then we would be still sitting in England under the King's rule.

Instead - our forefathers found that the fittest survive and those who can not - or will not - keep up - are necessarily left behind.

Now then - why don't you butt out of things you don't understand - and go back to trying to ruin someone's marriage?

[Observer]

Keep going, Tiger. You reveal more of yourself with every rant.

The world is not about you. I was thinking about something this morning and I realized I haven't seen a bobcat in at least five years. Of course, most of their ranging ground around here is now covered with houses. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

You are really funny. Just a few weeks ago, you were trying to convince people that couldn't possibly be a PI, now you are trying to disparage me because I AM one.

Do you really think that it is because of developers that most folks around here now have indoor plumbing? You need to get a check on your ego. Developers have done nothing here to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans", as you put it. I can travel this entire county and I can guarantee you there is not a subdivision within it that was put in to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans". Actually, I should qualify that by saying that the one developer I mentioned earlier has tried very hard to design and construct his communities in a way that benefit both the residents and the environment. Interestingly enough, he has been here longer than any other I can think of and has probably made less money in the last 30 years than most of these sleazebags make off of a single project.

I am sure you would consider him a failure.

[Tiger]

Keep going, Tiger. You reveal more of yourself with every rant.

The world is not about you. I was thinking about something this morning and I realized I haven't seen a bobcat in at least five years. Of course, most of their ranging ground around here is now covered with houses. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?


You haven't seen a bobcat. So what? Animals migrate to areas where they are more likely to survive. That's natural. Maybe if you would quit your tree-hugging EPA attitude long enough to open your eyes - you would see a lot more. This topic can't be reduced to "I didn't see a bobcat" mentality. This is about understanding the needs of the human race.

You are really funny. Just a few weeks ago, you were trying to convince people that couldn't possibly be a PI, now you are trying to disparage me because I AM one.

You claim to be one. Go figure. If you are - you make your living in one of the worst, scummiest ways known to mankind. But somehow - it seems to fit you. ;D

Do you really think that it is because of developers that most folks around here now have indoor plumbing?

It certainly is NOT because of those adobe-dwelling folks you seem to think should persist over progress. ::)


You need to get a check on your ego. Developers have done nothing here to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans", as you put it.

What a crock! You show more of your ignorance every time you post. Who do you think designs the roads you drive on? Figures out the watershed? Plans for future expansion? You really know very little.

I can travel this entire county and I can guarantee you there is not a subdivision within it that was put in to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans".

You really are full of yourself, aren't you? I don't think I have ever known a person so filled with shit for brains. All you know about is your little corner of the nation - and since it is NM - it is also the arm-pit of the nation. And more to the point - you only know it from one angle - your 'blinders-on" angle. I am so thankful that folks like you are not in positions of authority. You owe your entire livihood to those developers you so despise (which I am sure is out of jealousy) for planning and developing your dirty little corner of the world into a place that has stores, malls, subdivisions that are designed to house folks in comfort and provide the best shelter - and offer continuity.

Actually, I should qualify that by saying that the one developer I mentioned earlier has tried very hard to design and construct his communities in a way that benefit both the residents and the environment. Interestingly enough, he has been here longer than any other I can think of and has probably made less money in the last 30 years than most of these sleazebags make off of a single project.

I am sure you would consider him a failure.





I have no idea what I would consider him. I don't know him. If he is as anti-social as you are - then perhaps so. But if he is trying like other developers to better America in his own way - then I would respect him and his work- successful or not.

But little Peta adherents like you that seem to place the welfare of a bobcat running around over the development of housing for human beings and a well-designed and uniform residential areas are NOT my first choice for 'people of the year'.

You seem to have a problem with honest folks doing an honest day's work.

How you can sit in judgement of good people while you wreck marriages is beyond me.

But - to each his own. ::)

[Observer]

What is your fixation with wrecking marriages? Hubby sic a PI on you once? As a point of information, I don't handle domestic cases, never have. The vast majority of my caseloads involves attempts to locate. It is usually family members who have been out of touch for years, sometimes decades, adopted kids trying to locate bio parents, kids looking for siblings separated by adoption... things of that nature. So once again, you display your ignorance.

[Observer]

You haven't seen a bobcat. So what? Animals migrate to areas where they are more likely to survive.

Of course they do. You managed to completely duck the issue of WHY they are no longer in the area. It is because bottom feeding developers decided to put up houses where they ranged.

You keep talking about necessity and how developers are filling a necessary niche by providing housing to poor helpless souls who would otherwise be living in caves. You really are a self serving little twit. Putting up a bunch of million dollar homes does a great deal to help the poor downtrodden common folk, doesn't it? You revealed yourself quite clearly with your classless little rant about trailers being in the same area of million dollar homes and how you found that offensive.

Give it up Tiger. You don't fool anyone. You don't care in the least about people who can't help line your pockets. Who said she was looking into real estate in Texas because she thought she could sell the same piece of ground ten times?

Nobody here is talking about roads and hospitals... Those are a necessary part of the infrastructure and would exist even if there were no land grubbing slimey developers out there. Don't play this great humanitarian claptrap with me. You're not even good at it. You're too transparent. If you are si concerned about the welfare of your fellow man, I'll give you some locations that need hospitals. Go build one for cost. Then you'll gain a little credibility.

[the bib]

Did you know if you stood everyone in the United States in a one foot by one foot space, that we would all fit within that space in the size of Rhode Island?


How many people do you know that could FIT in a 1' x 1' space? :o

[the bib]

You just need to move to The South. Land is MUCH cheaper than $4,000 an acre here. Unless you buy a lot at a private lake, of course. :)



IF you can find a buildable acre in northeastern or central NJ, you need to pay minimum of $250,000 ... that will getcha on a highway, in a flood zone or on the side of a hill.

A bona fide building lot ranges $350,000 to $800,000.

[the bib]

Keep going, Tiger. You reveal more of yourself with every rant.

The world is not about you. I was thinking about something this morning and I realized I haven't seen a bobcat in at least five years. Of course, most of their ranging ground around here is now covered with houses. I wonder if that has anything to do with it?

You are really funny. Just a few weeks ago, you were trying to convince people that couldn't possibly be a PI, now you are trying to disparage me because I AM one.

Do you really think that it is because of developers that most folks around here now have indoor plumbing? You need to get a check on your ego. Developers have done nothing here to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans", as you put it. I can travel this entire county and I can guarantee you there is not a subdivision within it that was put in to promote "progress and better living conditions for humans". Actually, I should qualify that by saying that the one developer I mentioned earlier has tried very hard to design and construct his communities in a way that benefit both the residents and the environment. Interestingly enough, he has been here longer than any other I can think of and has probably made less money in the last 30 years than most of these sleazebags make off of a single project.

I am sure you would consider him a failure.


KUDOS to your friend.

What you began to address ... that is the methodical displacement of original residents is driven by the higher prices of the new development.

I can't say for Kansas ... but as a R.E. Broker, I CAN say for NJ ...

ALL of the new development here has been for higher end. .... NOTHING, NOTHING at all has been built for the lower or middle class income range.

Look at what has happenned:

Since 1992, the US has had an influx of more than 40 million legal people plus (depending on whose estimate) another 10 - 15 million illegal people.

This added almost 20% to our base population. REsult ... housing shortage ... which is what has driven the unprecedented residential building in the past 12 or so years.

Speaking now specifically of NJ,

A disproportionate number of these new people settled in Ca., Tx., Ariz., N.M., Fla., N.Y. and N.J.

Prior to the influx NJ was already the most densely populated state.

The new people are not, by and large competing for the upscale market ... in price ranges that start over $750,000 ...

they are competing in the low and middle end market ... a market which was ALREADY short of inventory.

The result is a competition for lower and middle class housing.... a 2 BR converted bungalow on 50 x 100 now routinely sells for over $250,000.

Still, the developers salivate hungrily over the little land that's left to build the high price homes to make the bigger buck ...

and the standard of living for everyone has gone down.

Like I mentioned before ... 60 or the 80 mile width on route 80 is a PARKING LOT during commuter hours.

SOMEONE needs to be strung up. >:(

[jeny]

I have to agree bib. By and large, development has been bad for this part of CA as well. There is a HUGE housing shortage, you either live in the slums, or get at least a $500,000 mortgage. What we need is NOT yet another development of 300 houses 3 inches apart at $750,000 each, but that's what we have, everywhere. Our first home was in a development, and it almost DOUBLED value in two years. But I felt like crap selling that house for what we sold it for, it's just a cheap stucco house on a street with 20 others exactly like it.

[the bib]

Of course they do. You managed to completely duck the issue of WHY they are no longer in the area. It is because bottom feeding developers decided to put up houses where they ranged.

You keep talking about necessity and how developers are filling a necessary niche by providing housing to poor helpless souls who would otherwise be living in caves. You really are a self serving little twit. Putting up a bunch of million dollar homes does a great deal to help the poor downtrodden common folk, doesn't it? You revealed yourself quite clearly with your classless little rant about trailers being in the same area of million dollar homes and how you found that offensive.

Give it up Tiger. You don't fool anyone. You don't care in the least about people who can't help line your pockets. Who said she was looking into real estate in Texas because she thought she could sell the same piece of ground ten times?

Nobody here is talking about roads and hospitals... Those are a necessary part of the infrastructure and would exist even if there were no land grubbing slimey developers out there. Don't play this great humanitarian claptrap with me. You're not even good at it. You're too transparent. If you are si concerned about the welfare of your fellow man, I'll give you some locations that need hospitals. Go build one for cost. Then you'll gain a little credibility.


You raise the other valid point ... the unrestricted development has resulted in homeowners paying increased taxes to pay for new schools and other social services.

The roads HAVE NOT been widened or added to in any way.

The hospitals and other infrastructure is overtaxed by the influx of so many new people.

The builders take their money and run

.... and leave all the displaced people and the infrastructure problems created behind.

I just don't call that "progress."

[the bib]

I have to agree bib. By and large, development has been bad for this part of CA as well. There is a HUGE housing shortage, you either live in the slums, or get at least a $500,000 mortgage. What we need is NOT yet another development of 300 houses 3 inches apart at $750,000 each, but that's what we have, everywhere. Our first home was in a development, and it almost DOUBLED value in two years. But I felt like crap selling that house for what we sold it for, it's just a cheap stucco house on a street with 20 others exactly like it.


You market, like mine has a severe housing shortage driven by the disproportionate influx of new people.

HAD THERE been forethought and planning instead of greed and payola for the planning boards ...

There would have been a common sense analysis that demanded that for every high end house built developers build proportionately to demand,

new low and middle income units too.....

AND roads, schools ... infrastructure to meet the demand in the increased population.

The developers/ REITS/town planners got rich ... the rest of us got SCAH-ROOD royally.

[wendy]

Jeny, at least California has managed to keep property taxes from spiraling out of control. I live in Fulton county in Georgia. The city of Atlanta (perpetually broke) is in Fulton county...but about 25 miles south of where I live. When I moved here there was nothing but dirt and pastures. Now, we're innundated by "gated communities" and cluster homes. ::) The value of my house HAS increased but so have the taxes to the point that people who have lived here for decades and have paid for their homes are selling and moving out into smaller houses in the surrounding counties because they can't afford the city and county taxes. That's NOT progress.

[jeny]

Jeny, at least California has managed to keep property taxes from spiraling out of control.

Only because they haven't figured out a way to declare prop 13 unconstitutional...yet. ;D


I live in Fulton county in Georgia. The city of Atlanta (perpetually broke) is in Fulton county...but about 25 miles south of where I live. When I moved here there was nothing but dirt and pastures. Now, we're innundated by "gated communities" and cluster homes. ::) The value of my house HAS increased but so have the taxes to the point that people who have lived here for decades and have paid for their homes are selling and moving out into smaller houses in the surrounding counties because they can't afford the city and county taxes. That's NOT progress.


Nope. Our property value continues to rise as well, but at such an expense to the local infrastructure that the bubble is bound to burst.

[the bib]

Jeny, at least California has managed to keep property taxes from spiraling out of control. I live in Fulton county in Georgia. The city of Atlanta (perpetually broke) is in Fulton county...but about 25 miles south of where I live. When I moved here there was nothing but dirt and pastures. Now, we're innundated by "gated communities" and cluster homes. ::) The value of my house HAS increased but so have the taxes to the point that people who have lived here for decades and have paid for their homes are selling and moving out into smaller houses in the surrounding counties because they can't afford the city and county taxes. That's NOT progress.


Right. It's going on all over.

In 1999 my R.E. taxes were about $4,200 per year. This year they are over $6,000. NO value added to the services/infrastructure, etc. Just 35% more for the same shit on a different day.

It is outrageous. >:(

[ilovelucy]

God, that is high for taxes, bib!

Tiger, yes, the land around here is really lovely.....

[Tiger]

I can see there is a lot of economic errancy in the thinking here.

Many indices are based on 'new housing starts'.

Everyone wants a new house - no one wants to pay for it.

What's new?

Put on your thinking caps and you will start to figure out that those new expensive houses you are all pissing and moaning so much about - are not only being filled by occupants who are supplying tax money into YOUR communities - but they are creating more 'move up' housing that the new buyers are moning out of.

You could learn by studying Reagan's trickle-down theory.

And for those of you who can not afford - but still want a new house - and are not satisfied with the 'move up' one - try going to your local lumber yard and asking them what has happened to the lumber prices since the Iraq war.

You get what you pay for folks - and you wanted - and now are going to pay for your war. We are all paying for your war.

Some of you have made some good points. Not Observer - he is as full of shit as he always is.

All one need do is call their local HUD office to find out where the newest project for low-income residents is located near you. And there WILL be one - or more.

Take a good look at new areas around schools in inner cities. They are being revamped for the families with kids.

Of course - there is always another solution for stopping population growth. Stop having kids. Kids grow up - get married - have kids - want housing, etc.

I guess all of you in favor of growth suppression are in favor in that case of mandatory abortion like China? It would solve your selfish little problems.

[Tiger]

A lot of developers are working with local communities to try and solve some of the problems created by greedy homeowners who hold out for outrageous prices and drive up values.

In Denver the builder's association has suggested and is implementing something called "inclusionary zoning" to help alleviate the problems of what they term "working poor".

But if you want to see what is really breaking this country's back - take a look at the money handed to people for nothing. And the money spent in foreign aid.

As long as you want those kinds of expenditures - and like supporting a war - you can look forward to your housing values increasing as cost of materials increases.

[Observer]

If someone takes their money and their land - they will be doing America a favor.

That pretty much says it all doesn't it? You showed yourself quite plainly.

You are disgusting, Tiger. It is obvious you are in the right business.

[ilovelucy]

lumber and sheetrock!!!! Prices are sky-high. We paid $17 a sheet last winter, up to $4o for the same. I posted this....

[Tiger]

That pretty much says it all doesn't it? You showed yourself quite plainly.

You are disgusting, Tiger. It is obvious you are in the right business.




Oh really Mr. "Pry into other's private affairs and wreck marriages?"

At least I have respect for families and people's rights to privacy.

More than I can say for your sorry ass. ::)

[Observer]

Apparently you are also illiterate. Oh well, it matters as little as you do.

You forgot to tell me I am fat and to ask if I am posting from a prison cell. You're slipping.

If I was of a religious bent, I would be on my knees thanking God I'm not you.

I think we're done here.

[Tiger]

Apparently you are also illiterate. Oh well, it matters as little as you do.

You forgot to tell me I am fat and to ask if I am posting from a prison cell. You're slipping.

If I was of a religious bent, I would be on my knees thanking God I'm not you.

I think we're done here.



I'd say YOU are the illiterate one. Your jealousy is getting the best of you - isn't it?

Go ahead and curse the folks who are your superior. It makes no difference to me.

It won't change the fact that they are the visionaries of our nation and you are simply a home-wrecking whiner.

I'm sure a life like that WOULD make a person bitter and envious.

Oh well, enjoy your pathetic little insignificant life.

Glad I'm not YOU. ;D

[jeny]

Everyone wants a new house - no one wants to pay for it.

Not everyone wants a new, characterless house that looks exactly like the 20 other houses in their neighborhood. A lot of people want an older, well-built home in an established neighborhood that has something "different"


Put on your thinking caps and you will start to figure out that those new expensive houses you are all pissing and moaning so much about - are not only being filled by occupants who are supplying tax money into YOUR communities - but they are creating more 'move up' housing that the new buyers are moning out of.

As the communites put more and more money into the new tract developments (because the developers line the pockets of the boards) the older "move up" home's neighborhoods fall into disrepair and neglect. There is no money to upgrade and renovate the old schools when all the money is going to build more roads and services for the tract homes, which are ugly and expensive.

And it's not jealousy. I don't WANT to live in one of those developments. The houses are RIGHT on top of eachother and they have NO character. Wall to wall beige carpets and white on white on white on white walls. Blech.

[wendy]

And it's not jealousy. I don't WANT to live in one of those developments. The houses are RIGHT on top of eachother and they have NO character. Wall to wall beige carpets and white on white on white on white walls. Blech.





Absolutely! What is the point in having a house when your neighbor's house is 10 feet away? ::) Take a look at the typical development. The same 8 houses repeated 300 times. There is no trace of individuality at all. It's all part of "fitting in" and being part of the "group".

[ilovelucy]

yuck and expensive yuck to boot!

[Tiger]

Not everyone wants a new, characterless house that looks exactly like the 20 other houses in their neighborhood. A lot of people want an older, well-built home in an established neighborhood that has something "different"

Those are the homes that are vacated as the owners move into new ones. Everyone should persue their own dream house - but you know that there are a limited number of those romantic old houses? Not everyone is going to get one. Sure they have lots of character - we owned a Victorian for years - and loved the neighborhood - but get ready to pay double the utility bills - although you will get a break on curb and gutter taxes and no specials. ;)


As the communites put more and more money into the new tract developments (because the developers line the pockets of the boards) the older "move up" home's neighborhoods fall into disrepair and neglect. There is no money to upgrade and renovate the old schools when all the money is going to build more roads and services for the tract homes, which are ugly and expensive.

If the older houses are falling into disrepair - then they will either be torn down - or some folks will come along to restore them. Many homes built pre-1978 are filled with lead-based paint - not something you want your little ones around anyway. It has been linked to mental retardation among other health problems.

But the money to upgrade a house needs to come from the owners - not the community. It is a personal investment. And there are many folks who like tract homes. I am not among them. BTW - specials are assesed on those new developments so that the residents pay off their improvements.

And if you really have proof that the developer is lining the board's pockets you should tell the police - that is a crime.

And it's not jealousy. I don't WANT to live in one of those developments. The houses are RIGHT on top of eachother and they have NO character. Wall to wall beige carpets and white on white on white on white walls. Blech.





Not all of them. And like I said - character costs some big bucks. I guess the trick is to be able to give folks what they want. All are different. And want different things at different times in their lives.

Bottom line is - the new developments - for all their ugliness to you - are prefered by the buyers and so they sell.

And that is what America is all about. Providing what the people want.

We would not want to force everyone into identical apartments like they assembled by crane in the former Soviet Union would we?

[arod]

I'm not sure I can hang with this idea that developers are somehow inherently evil.

Gamblers contribute funds to organizations who use the money to hire leg-breakers, and are therefore not guiltless as regards the evil done by those organizations. Likewise, I don't see how we can villify developers without also villifying their custormers. Is somebody making them buy those cracker-boxes?

[Tiger]

Absolutely! What is the point in having a house when your neighbor's house is 10 feet away? ::) Take a look at the typical development. The same 8 houses repeated 300 times. There is no trace of individuality at all. It's all part of "fitting in" and being part of the "group".




Well, that is what is selling. Folks are getting away from big yards because they want to have more time to take the kids and boat to the lake. They are opting for communities that provide more common's services and less maintanence.

A good supplier will give the buyer what they want.

But if you want a custom home built - there are plenty of custom builders out there that will build to suit.

What you see in those developments are called "spec" homes and are based on what the national statistics say the largest market wants. The builder is investing his own money - so he cant' afford to take a risk and put up a two-story pink home with character in a development of ranch-style homes. Besides there are likely codes prohibiting it.

The real problems are with the modulars that look nice on the outside but will fall apart in a few short years.

There are the real criminals - modular home manufacturers and sellers.

I'm not sure I can hang with this idea that developers are somehow inherently evil.

Gamblers contribute funds to organizations who use the money to hire leg-breakers, and are therefore not guiltless as regards the evil done by those organizations. Likewise, I don't see how we can villify developers without also villifying their custormers. Is somebody making them buy those cracker-boxes?




Well yeah you're right, not all developers are scum, that's ridiculous. Most I know are visionaries, community planners. Not only do they build homes but set aside many acres for churches and schools and shopping centers. And not all developments have cracker box houses.

[Tiger]

Well yeah you're right, not all developers are scum, that's ridiculous. Most I know are visionaries, community planners. Not only do they build homes but set aside many acres for churches and schools and shopping centers. And not all developments have cracker box houses.



Exactly - we all want a nice country to live in. Planning ahead and planning well is important. In fact of all the developers I know - only one is actually a bit iffy. All the rest are good down-to-earth folks.

[the bib]

I can see there is a lot of economic errancy in the thinking here.

Many indices are based on 'new housing starts'.

Everyone wants a new house - no one wants to pay for it.

What's new?

Put on your thinking caps and you will start to figure out that those new expensive houses you are all pissing and moaning so much about - are not only being filled by occupants who are supplying tax money into YOUR communities - but they are creating more 'move up' housing that the new buyers are moning out of.

I can;t speak for the dynamic in Kansas, but it DIRECTLY attributable to the overdevelopment around here which has cause MY taxes to rise over 35% in 4 years.

Why?

New schools are expensive ... every newly built house brings in more kids. Most towns west of 287 have either built new schools or massive additions.

More cops ... more teachers ... more $$$ for extra curriculars ...more roads to clear ... more muni workers ... gone are the part time building and zoning guys ... full time workers with benefits now.

There is no trickle down benefits ... if anything, the older is subsidizing the lifestyle of the newer ... not to MENTION what was once community, rural and slow paced is now strangers, road rage and people crawling out of EVERYwhere like cockaroaches.

The standard of living, quality of life has gone down ... and it costs much more for much less.


You could learn by studying Reagan's trickle-down theory.

Mixing yiour metaphors again, dearie.


And for those of you who can not afford - but still want a new house - and are not satisfied with the 'move up' one - try going to your local lumber yard and asking them what has happened to the lumber prices since the Iraq war.

It's not the lumber, it's the cost of the land. Perhaps you missed? Minimum of $250,000 per building lot IF you can find one for that. Average building lot over $500,000.

THAT is why it is so expensive.

And WHY are the lots so expensive? It's the law of supply and demand (not trickle down .. ;) ).

With the influx of over 20% to the base population in a state that there was already a housing shortage and the complete absence of building for middle class ...

well even you can figure it out that lumber is the LEAST of it.


You get what you pay for folks - and you wanted - and now are going to pay for your war. We are all paying for your war.

I am always amazed at how you can blame the Admin for every ill that YOU deem an ill.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the price of tea in china or the price of lumber in nj or kansas.

BUT you are being affected by the law of supply and demand ... and if you want to BLAME a group, I suggest you start with the ones who prevent planned and responsible forestry.

You have no lumber because the greeney nuts won;t let them cut down the trees. ;)


Some of you have made some good points. Not Observer - he is as full of shit as he always is.


All one need do is call their local HUD office to find out where the newest project for low-income residents is located near you. And there WILL be one - or more.

In NJ it's called MT Laurel .... and it is all happenning in places one wouldn;t want to live.. but even there, not much ... certainly NOTHING like what is needed is available.


Take a good look at new areas around schools in inner cities. They are being revamped for the families with kids.

The inner city schools have stayed stagnant ... or gotten worse.


Of course - there is always another solution for stopping population growth. Stop having kids. Kids grow up - get married - have kids - want housing, etc.

Or another ... stop the massive invasion ... it is the increase in the base population which is creating the severe housing shortage.


I guess all of you in favor of growth suppression are in favor in that case of mandatory abortion like China? It would solve your selfish little problems.


WHAT HAS CHINA and abortion got to do with it??

It is amazing how you can jump from subject to subject, drawing correlations that are neither germaine or do not exist at all.

[the bib]

A lot of developers are working with local communities to try and solve some of the problems created by greedy homeowners who hold out for outrageous prices and drive up values.

GREEDY HOMEOWNERS????

It is THEIR land, THEIR homes, THEIR history, THEIR equity.

If there is greed ... it is the developers who want to make money off of someone ELSE'S property.

Developers and investors (I know ... remember, I WORK with them) are NOTORIOUS for NOT wanting to pay fair market value.


In Denver the builder's association has suggested and is implementing something called "inclusionary zoning" to help alleviate the problems of what they term "working poor".

But if you want to see what is really breaking this country's back - take a look at the money handed to people for nothing. And the money spent in foreign aid.

Can you please stop mixing metaphors?


As long as you want those kinds of expenditures - and like supporting a war - you can look forward to your housing values increasing as cost of materials increases.


It is supply and demand ... there is a shortage ... yes.

Not from the war but from the demands resulting from having to absorb over 50 million people in less than 12 years.

[the bib]

I'm not sure I can hang with this idea that developers are somehow inherently evil.

Gamblers contribute funds to organizations who use the money to hire leg-breakers, and are therefore not guiltless as regards the evil done by those organizations. Likewise, I don't see how we can villify developers without also villifying their custormers. Is somebody making them buy those cracker-boxes?



I'm not saying that developers are evil.

I am saying that deveopment should be congruent with infrastructure ... and planning for it.

There are no impact studies as to WHAT the developments are going to cost the community in $$$ or quality of life.

The net result has been overbuilding, taxing the environment and gouging the resident.

There is one NJ town so overbuilt that there is no more water in the aquifier .... without digging a well 4 times as deep as usual.

... it is the ONLY thing that compeeled them to call a development moratorium.

And the cookie cutter houses are boring and fugly.

[Tiger]

I can;t speak for the dynamic in Kansas, but it DIRECTLY attributable to the overdevelopment around here which has cause MY taxes to rise over 35% in 4 years.

and your income has not increased - I suppose?



New schools are expensive ... every newly built house brings in more kids. Most towns west of 287 have either built new schools or massive additions.

More cops ... more teachers ... more $$$ for extra curriculars ...more roads to clear ... more muni workers ... gone are the part time building and zoning guys ... full time workers with benefits now.

There is no trickle down benefits ... if anything, the older is subsidizing the lifestyle of the newer ... not to MENTION what was once community, rural and slow paced is now strangers, road rage and people crawling out of EVERYwhere like cockaroaches.

Damn! Better start supporting abortion. ;)

The standard of living, quality of life has gone down ... and it costs much more for much less.

Can't say about NJ - but around here - the quality had gone way up.

Mixing yiour metaphors again, dearie.

Not really. You just seem unfamiliar with the concept. Try studying it.

It's not the lumber, it's the cost of the land. Perhaps you missed? Minimum of $250,000 per building lot IF you can find one for that. Average building lot over $500,000.

Land prices are indicative of a specific local economy. You should know that. Lumber prices have TRIPLED in the last 6 months due DIRECTLY to the huge shipments of lumber headed to Iraq. Keep up here.

THAT is why it is so expensive.

And WHY are the lots so expensive? It's the law of supply and demand (not trickle down .. ;) ).

With the influx of over 20% to the base population in a state that there was already a housing shortage and the complete absence of building for middle class ...

well even you can figure it out that lumber is the LEAST of it.I am always amazed at how you can blame the Admin for every ill that YOU deem an ill.

For a realtor you know very little about what drives construction costs. A good long conversation with your local supply yard and developer could inform you. The aceage (lot costs) here have not appreciably increased in a decade.

I personally don't give a rat's ass about the price of tea in china or the price of lumber in nj or kansas.

That's obvious. ::)

BUT you are being affected by the law of supply and demand ... and if you want to BLAME a group, I suggest you start with the ones who prevent planned and responsible forestry.

You have no lumber because the greeney nuts won;t let them cut down the trees. ;)In NJ it's called MT Laurel .... and it is all happenning in places one wouldn;t want to live.. but even there, not much ... certainly NOTHING like what is needed is available.The inner city schools have stayed stagnant ... or gotten worse.Or another ... stop the massive invasion ... it is the increase in the base population which is creating the severe housing shortage.WHAT HAS CHINA and abortion got to do with it??

Again - you fail to pay attention. You were just ranting about too many people yet you fight tooth and nail to make sure more unwanted ones show up here. Get real.

It is amazing how you can jump from subject to subject, drawing correlations that are neither germaine or do not exist at all.


You are likely amazed because your mind works only on ONE TRACK and seems incapable of any sort of diversity or flexibility.

[Tiger]

GREEDY HOMEOWNERS????

It is THEIR land, THEIR homes, THEIR history, THEIR equity.

If there is greed ... it is the developers who want to make money off of someone ELSE'S property.


Are you smoking hooch? Developers do not make money off someone's else's property. What is the matter with you? They may BUY the property and develope it - which throws your silly comment right back in your face as they then OWN it.

Developers and investors (I know ... remember, I WORK with them) are NOTORIOUS for NOT wanting to pay fair market value.Can you please stop mixing metaphors?It is supply and demand ... there is a shortage ... yes.

I have NO idea what developers you have dealt with - but the seller NEVER has to sell - unless you have a gun to his head. I am hoping that is NOT your tactic. ;D

Of course larger tracts of land are NOT going to be purchased for the same money the lots will be sold for. This is where realtors - if they are not also builders make their biggest mistakes. But you are in good company. I have had to educate many. ;) There are HUGE costs associated with the development of land. Not litle diddly amounts - big stuff. Money - right up front - that will NOT show a return until the development is well into its building stage. A simple realtor does not usually comprehend the costs involved to the developer. And yet - for the original seller to turn around and bitch because the lot price is higher per area than he sold it for - is to compare apples and oranges. Not even in the same league.

Not from the war but from the demands resulting from having to absorb over 50 million people in less than 12 years.



TRIPLED in 6 MONTHS. Get a clue. ::)

[wendy]

GREEDY HOMEOWNERS????

It is THEIR land, THEIR homes, THEIR history, THEIR equity.

If there is greed ... it is the developers who want to make money off of someone ELSE'S property.



Exactly! And more and more developers are turning to local government to acquire their property through eminent domain. There is a case in Alabaster Alabama that involves a developer who wanted certain properties...the owners wouldn't sell so they went to the city council. Now the owners are being called greedy for standing in the way of "progress". ::)

[wendy]

And yet - for the original seller to turn around and bitch because the lot price is higher per area than he sold it for - is to compare apples and oranges. Not even in the same league.TRIPLED in 6 MONTHS. Get a clue. ::)


What is the profit margin for the developer? It must be pretty substantial for him to take the time and effort to devolop a certain area. Is his desire for profit less "greedy" than the owner of the land he covets?

[Tiger]

I'm not saying that developers are evil.

I am saying that deveopment should be congruent with infrastructure ... and planning for it.

There are no impact studies as to WHAT the developments are going to cost the community in $$$ or quality of life.


NO IMPACT STUDIES???????? Where have you been hiding all these years???

All we have is impact study after impact study and committee's appointed to oversee demographic speculation. The more you post - the more I become certain that New Jersey is like a foreign country.

The net result has been overbuilding, taxing the environment and gouging the resident.

There is one NJ town so overbuilt that there is no more water in the aquifier .... without digging a well 4 times as deep as usual.

Do you have any idea of the depth of the wells in mountainous regions of Colorado? You guys have been babied it sounds like. Welcome to some REAL work to get things going. ;D

... it is the ONLY thing that compeeled them to call a development moratorium.

And the cookie cutter houses are boring and fugly.



Right. ::) Is that what you tell your clients when you are showing them? Is that what you tell them as you take the check from the Title Agent?

[Tiger]

Exactly! And more and more developers are turning to local government to acquire their property through eminent domain. There is a case in Alabaster Alabama that involves a developer who wanted certain properties...the owners wouldn't sell so they went to the city council. Now the owners are being called greedy for standing in the way of "progress". ::)


There are laws governing what eminent domain can and cannot be used for.

[wendy]

There are laws governing what eminent domain can and cannot be used for.


Yes, and today it can be used to increase the tax base or build a Walmart. All for the "good" of the community. ::)

[Observer]

The aceage (lot costs) here have not appreciably increased in a decade.

You must live in some kind of fantasy bubble. I have watched land prices here go from less than a thousand dollars an acre to over sixty five thousand an acre in LESS than a decade.

Tiger, you are so wrapped around dollar signs that you missed what bib was trying to tell you. You also completely missed my point when I mentioned the Bobcat. This entire thread, all you have talked about is how to make money off your land. I live in a place that is famous for its mountain views, its wildlife, its skiing and hiking...

The people who come here to live, not the people who come here to build 3 million dollar houses and stay in them 6 weeks a year, come here not with the intent of buying land so they can sell it in a couple of years for a profit. They come here to LIVE. They buy a piece of land with the intention of living on it for the rest of their lives. Greedy, unscrupulous developers have made that impossible for a good many people, people who would contribute much more to the community than the refugees who are here a few weeks out of the year.

My point about the Bobcat and the other wildlife is that those are the things that made this place so special. Those are the things that are being displaced by the developers. The mountains that attracted people to this place for centuries are getting harder to look at on a daily basis because of the reflections off the houses being built on their slopes.

You really don't get it. I can't say that I feel sorry for you, because I don't. I don't think you are worth that much energy. Go build a mall in Topeka or someplace, make your money. I just hope you never come soil my neck of the woods.

[jeny]

There are laws governing what eminent domain can and cannot be used for.



And they are continually ignored.

[Tiger]

What is the profit margin for the developer? It must be pretty substantial for him to take the time and effort to devolop a certain area. Is his desire for profit less "greedy" than the owner of the land he covets?



There is no set profit margin. It all depends on what is being developed - where it is being developed - what amount of venture capital - or REIT money - or other money will need to be repaid and this may surprise you - but some developers lose their ass in a development proposition.

It's like any other American business - the owner(s) want to make a profit. The larger they are - usually - the more effective they are business-wise and the more they will profit.

Developers come in all shapes and sizes. You seem to be pointing to the major ones and judging all the smaller ones by that standard. That is not a good rule of thumb.

It is no different than a retail store - your local clothing store on Main Street USA will struggle more to sell its wares than Wal Mart will - the same with developers.


But like lonestar said - most developers are the visionaries - not the crooks. Everyone wants pretty towns and cities - but the cuss the folks that make them.

[Tiger]

And they are continually ignored.



Case in point?

[jeny]

Case in point?


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml

[jeny]

Case in point?


http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru021803.asp?/base/opinion/1040294072245580.xml

[jeny]

Case in point?


http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/09/29/loc_norwood_homeowners.html

Do you want more?

[wendy]

http://www.castlecoalition.org/

[jeny]

http://www.castlecoalition.org/


Damn you, LOL. That's where I was pulling all my stories from

[arod]

My point about the Bobcat and the other wildlife is that those are the things that made this place so special. Those are the things that are being displaced by the developers.

I suspect many times more bobcat and other critters were incinerated in the fires for which terrorist organizations like the Sierra club set the stage than were displaced by every development in the last 50 years.

[Tiger]

You must live in some kind of fantasy bubble.

You are the first to call Kansas a fantasy bubble.

I have watched land prices here go from less than a thousand dollars an acre to over sixty five thousand an acre in LESS than a decade.

Now tell us if that is NORMAL rate increase for NM? Hmmmm.... or is it a resort area? Why dont' you try explaining THAT?

Tiger, you are so wrapped around dollar signs that you missed what bib was trying to tell you. You also completely missed my point when I mentioned the Bobcat. This entire thread, all you have talked about is how to make money off your land. I live in a place that is famous for its mountain views, its wildlife, its skiing and hiking...

I didn't miss bib's point - but I disagreed - go back and read. As for YOU - you posted a bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, Peta-loving post about the animals and the land and on and on and on...............

The people who come here to live, not the people who come here to build 3 million dollar houses and stay in them 6 weeks a year, come here not with the intent of buying land so they can sell it in a couple of years for a profit. They come here to LIVE. They buy a piece of land with the intention of living on it for the rest of their lives. Greedy, unscrupulous developers have made that impossible for a good many people, people who would contribute much more to the community than the refugees who are here a few weeks out of the year.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Observer. This is America. No one owes anyone else anything. What do you want? Another social hand-out program? If someone can afford something - fine - if not - they need to look elsewhere. Look at what lucy said - and look here where I live - there is PLENTY of low dollar acreage available. That reminds me way too much of the folks in the ghetto selling drugs and doing drive-bys - claiming that life (and this country) are not treating them fairly. I have news for you. We all need to make our own way in this world. Things change. Things progress. If you want to have an impact - get involved - just sitting around bitching solves nothing.

My point about the Bobcat and the other wildlife is that those are the things that made this place so special. Those are the things that are being displaced by the developers. The mountains that attracted people to this place for centuries are getting harder to look at on a daily basis because of the reflections off the houses being built on their slopes.

That is too bad. But the developers work in groups - and you seem to be saying that there is some sort of urban sprawl going on in the hills. I highly suspect a resort-type development is going on there although you have not admitted that.

You really don't get it. I can't say that I feel sorry for you, because I don't. I don't think you are worth that much energy. Go build a mall in Topeka or someplace, make your money. I just hope you never come soil my neck of the woods.



Oops - your agenda is slipping. How can someone 'soil' something that according to YOU is already soiled?

And while you are on your holier-than-thou pedestal - try not shopping at those malls or buying from those merchants or going to that new theater that the taxes gathered from the new inhabitants paid for.


Just for you - dont say I never gave you any good tips.

In a tiny town not far from here - they are giving away land. You can get a lot for free. As the mayor says - it is definetly Norman Rockwell through and through.

Now then - where can you beat that? Free land? Kind of shoots your "everyone's out to get me rant" right in the butt.


As mayor, Steve Piper knows first hand about these hardships. Now, the biggest battle is being fought, thanks to the help of the big ideas from this small community.

A Chicago affiliate of CBS recently interviewed Piper about the town's new investment in people. They have devised a plan to give away housing lots for people to build on. The only requirement for the free land is that the people who claim it either hire a contractor or build a home on it within the first year of ownership. Piper says it's within the

law, but that "we kind of stretched the limits." He adds "are they going to throw you in jail to save a town?"

The main reason for the land giveaway is to attract more people to Marquette and increase the number of residents in the town, particularly to add more students to the schools. So far, of the lots given away, 26 have been given to families with children, which conversely affects the potential future population of Marquette.

The response to the idea has been overwhelming, said the mayor. The town has had over 150 people and organizations ask about the program.

It all started from a small article in a newspaper and went from a wire story to National Public Radio to this week's intrigue of CBS.

When asked what could attract people to Marquette, the mayor responded "if you think of Norman Rockwell and all that represents, that's Marquette." For now, Marquette is on its way to winning the battle and keeping their community on the Kansas map.






If anyone is interested - I can get them the contact numbers.


Not every community is growing by leaps and bounds.

[wendy]

Damn you, LOL. That's where I was pulling all my stories from



Who is getting rich by abusing eminent domain? Developers and government.

http://www.reason.com/0302/fe.ss.wrecking.shtml

[Tiger]

Damn you, LOL. That's where I was pulling all my stories from




I hope those folks have the balls to fight it then. I have found most just sit and whine and play the 'victim'. It's easier.

If more folks would get involved instead of simply crying in their milk - these things would not happen.

[wendy]

That reminds me way too much of the folks in the ghetto selling drugs and doing drive-bys - claiming that life (and this country) are not treating them fairly. I have news for you. We all need to make our own way in this world. Things change. Things progress.

The same ghettos that were planned and built by DEVELOPERS. Wow...that's progress. ::)

[Tiger]

Who is getting rich by abusing eminent domain? Developers and government.

http://www.reason.com/0302/fe.ss.wrecking.shtml




Damn! Reminds me of Halliburton cleaning up with our tax dollars in Iraq. Yep - HUGE business can be a real pain in the ass.

[wendy]

I hope those folks have the balls to fight it then. I have found most just sit and whine and play the 'victim'. It's easier.

If more folks would get involved instead of simply crying in their milk - these things would not happen.


People have been fighting it, Tiger. And they've been losing because "greedy" developers have been promising local governments money for stealing the land from owners.

[wendy]

Damn! Reminds me of Halliburton cleaning up with our tax dollars in Iraq. Yep - HUGE business can be a real pain in the ass.


Tiger, you can justify your case all you want. Some of us actually LIVE in areas that have been overrun by developers and what they've left in their wake is in no way better than what we had before. The more they build, the HIGHER my taxes rise and the services we receive are less than before the land grabbers arrived.

[Tiger]

The same ghettos that were planned and built by DEVELOPERS. Wow...that's progress. ::)



Decades ago my dear. The problem there is that they fell into hands that did not care - and do not care - to try and furnish the upkeep. That has got to be one of the stupidest things you have said. If your neighbor has a meth lab in his basement - are you going to blame that on the builder too???? ::)

What is your solution?

You have a way to solve the problem? Or you just blowing?

[truelies]

The same ghettos that were planned and built by DEVELOPERS. Wow...that's progress. ::)


The Builders/Developers did not create the ghettoes. Those were created by the social work dogooders of the 1950's & 1960's.

[Tiger]

Tiger, you can justify your case all you want. Some of us actually LIVE in areas that have been overrun by developers and what they've left in their wake is in no way better than what we had before. The more they build, the HIGHER my taxes rise and the services we receive are less than before the land grabbers arrived.



Then quitcherbitchin and get off your ass and DO something Hillary. ::)

[Observer]

Tiger,

You obviously don't have a clue about New Mexico (and many other things on which you pontificate).

I have no agenda except to keep leeches (developers) from coming in and bleeding the area dry. There is much more to "value" than a dollar amount. I don't expect you to understand that. Developers have driven land prices through the roof. They have also greatly decreased the "value" of the area.

Stay in Kansas. We have enough vermin running around here on 4 legs. We don't need any more of the 2 legged variety.

[Tiger]

The Builders/Developers did not create the ghettoes. Those were created by the social work dogooders of the 1950's & 1960's.



very true - and I am surprised to hear sentiments coming from folks here that claim to be Republicans - and yet are definetly taking a liberal Democratic stance on this.

They keep this up - they will have Bill re-elected soon. ;D

[wendy]

Decades ago my dear. The problem there is that they fell into hands that did not care - and do not care - to try and furnish the upkeep. That has got to be one of the stupidest things you have said. If your neighbor has a meth lab in his basement - are you going to blame that on the builder too???? ::)

What is your solution?

You have a way to solve the problem? Or you just blowing?


Tiger, taking a thousand people and cramming them into one small area has never been conducive to good behavior.

[wendy]

The Builders/Developers did not create the ghettoes. Those were created by the social work dogooders of the 1950's & 1960's.


Oh, so now social workers are developing neighborhoods. Is Tiger a social dogooder as well? She seems to be very interested in "helping" others. ::)

[Tiger]

Tiger,

You obviously don't have a clue about New Mexico (and many other things on which you pontificate).

I have no agenda except to keep leeches (developers) from coming in and bleeding the area dry. There is much more to "value" than a dollar amount. I don't expect you to understand that. Developers have driven land prices through the roof. They have also greatly decreased the "value" of the area.

Stay in Kansas. We have enough vermin running around here on 4 legs. We don't need any more of the 2 legged variety.



Oh I know there are vermin in NM - YOU are there. ;D


Never fear - you can go about your prying into other's privacy - sneaking around like a snake - snooping into personal financial matters and finding mothers who never wanted to be found - wrecking their live in the process. I shall not hinder that - I don't usually go slumming.

Oh yes - vermin ABOUND in your arm-pit of the world. ;D

[Tiger]

Tiger, taking a thousand people and cramming them into one small area has never been conducive to good behavior.




Sounds like you're talking about HUD - your tax dollars at work for social housing. You are a little confused. Maybe you would like to kick in MORE money to give those good folks a little MORE handout. 8)

[wendy]

Tiger, if you wanted to develop a certain area that had been seized by eminent domain...would you purchase the property?

[Observer]

Oh yes - vermin ABOUND in your arm-pit of the world.

If you would like, I'll turn a few developers on to the wonderful opportunities to destroy the land and rip off the locals in Kansas. Maybe I can reduce our vermin count by a few.

[Tiger]

Oh, so now social workers are developing neighborhoods. Is Tiger a social dogooder as well? She seems to be very interested in "helping" others. ::)



I'm no dogooder and we all know YOU are not either. Except when it comes to your boyfriend floundering - then you pull out all the stops. ;D ;)

[wendy]

If you would like, I'll turn a few developers on to the wonderful opportunities to destroy the land and rip off the locals in Kansas. Maybe I can reduce our vermin count by a few.


Kansas? Ah yes, the garden spot of the USA.

[truelies]

Oh, so now social workers are developing neighborhoods. Is Tiger a social dogooder as well? She seems to be very interested in "helping" others. ::)


I did not say that social workers 'develop' neighborhoods. In fact I think I said they wreck them.

what is so wrong with free exchange. If I sell a piece of land to a developer and that developer builds houses which other people purchase and maybe a Wal-mart for them to shop at and all of this is free exchange-who is harmed?

[Tiger]

Tiger, if you wanted to develop a certain area that had been seized by eminent domain...would you purchase the property?



I would not bring about eminent domain proceedings - if that is what you are asking.

I would move on down the road - there is a lot of land out there.


But - if the land had been seized sometime in the past and was now being offered for sale - I might bid on it.

[wendy]

Unfortunately for the citizens of Kansas, their state is one of the worst abusers of eminent domain, especially in comparison to other states with similar population size. The Kansas Supreme Court in 1998 held that taking the homes of 150 families to make way for a private racetrack was a “public” purpose. Other cities, including Independence and Topeka, have followed suit, and the City of Merriam condemned a used car dealership for a higher-priced BMW dealership. It looks like Kansas home and business owners just better hope that their property doesn’t draw the attention of any covetous developers, because Kansas cities are more than willing to use eminent domain on developers’ behalf.


http://www.castlecoalition.org/reportStates/Kansas.shtml

This doesn't suprise me at all.

Tiger wouldn't encourage seizure of private property..but if the government takes someones land by forces, she'll be more than willing to buy it. ::)

Kansas beats Georgia any day ... who wants to live in a place where everybody is related? ;)

[truelies]

Unfortunately for the citizens of Kansas, their state is one of the worst abusers of eminent domain, especially in comparison to other states with similar population size. The Kansas Supreme Court in 1998 held that taking the homes of 150 families to make way for a private racetrack was a “public” purpose. Other cities, including Independence and Topeka, have followed suit, and the City of Merriam condemned a used car dealership for a higher-priced BMW dealership. It looks like Kansas home and business owners just better hope that their property doesn’t draw the attention of any covetous developers, because Kansas cities are more than willing to use eminent domain on developers’ behalf.


http://www.castlecoalition.org/reportStates/Kansas.shtml

This doesn't suprise me at all.

Tiger wouldn't encourage seizure of private property..but if the government takes someones land by forces, she'll be more than willing to buy it. ::)


Typically a seizure is not followed by a public auction. The property is taken for a particular interest. However is a property is taken for say failure to pay taxes or bankruptcy what on earth is WRONG with bidding on the property?

[truelies]

Kansas beats Georgia anyday ... who wants to live in a place where everybody is related? ;)


people who like kissin' cousins?????????

people who like kissin' cousins?????????



Georgia is a third world state.

[Tiger]

Unfortunately for the citizens of Kansas, their state is one of the worst abusers of eminent domain, especially in comparison to other states with similar population size. The Kansas Supreme Court in 1998 held that taking the homes of 150 families to make way for a private racetrack was a “public” purpose. Other cities, including Independence and Topeka, have followed suit, and the City of Merriam condemned a used car dealership for a higher-priced BMW dealership. It looks like Kansas home and business owners just