View Full Version : 'Eye-blink tests show sexuality is hard-wired before birth'
'Eye-blink tests show sexuality is hard-wired before birth' (http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_825217.html)
Psychologists say they have found powerful evidence to support the theory that a person's sexuality is "hard-wired" into the brain before birth.
Researchers measured the "startle" response, or eye-blink reaction, of both straight and gay test subjects who were subjected to sudden loud noises.
They found significant differences in the response between male and female, heterosexual and homosexual participants which, they said, could be linked to the area of the brain which determined sexuality.
Dr Qazi Rahman, of the University of East London, said the reaction of the lesbian test subjects was closer to that which would be expected among straight men. The same was true among gay men, although to a lesser extent, in that their reaction was closer to that of women.
Dr Rahman said the results could affect the way society dealt with sexuality and issues of sexual orientation.
Along with Dr Veena Kumari and Dr Glenn Wilson of the Institute of Psychiatry, part of King's College London, Dr Rahman claimed their study offered the first independent evidence of a non-learned, neurological basis for sexual orientation.
Using a technique called prepulse inhibition (PPI), the test subjects were unexpectedly startled by loud noises preceded by a quieter noise.
Using electrodes on the face just beneath the eye, Dr Rahman measured the strength of the involuntary eye-blink responses to the noises and compared them with those to a loud noise on its own - the lower the response, the stronger the level of inhibition.
Heterosexual men had a PPI of 40%, compared to 13% for heterosexual women. Lesbians had a PPI of 33% - significantly stronger that that of straight women. Gay men averaged a PPI of 32% - slightly lower than straight men.
Dr Rahman said: "The startle response is pre-conscious and cannot be learned. It is mediated by an ancient region of the brain called the limbic system which also controls sexual behaviour. This is very strong evidence that female sexual orientation at least may be 'hard-wired' in this region."
How very interesting.
What are next, “hard-wired” pedophiles? Or "hard-wired" lawyers, or "hard-wired" this and that? What are we, a bunch of robots, pre-programmed with absolutely no control over our lives?
When does personal responsibility for our lives take place? Never?
wendy
10-02-2003, 02:39 PM
What are next, “hard-wired” pedophiles? Or "hard-wired" lawyers, or "hard-wired" this and that? What are we, a bunch of robots, pre-programmed with absolutely no control over our lives?
When does personal responsibility for our lives take place? Never?
So you think sexual preference is a personal choice? At what exact time this morning did you decide today was going to be a "heterosexual day"?
blurb
10-02-2003, 02:54 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=952602 0&dopt=Abstract
Adrenergic alpha2C-receptors modulate the acoustic startle reflex, prepulse inhibition, and aggression in mice.
Sallinen J, Haapalinna A, Viitamaa T, Kobilka BK, Scheinin M.
Department of Pharmacology and Clinical Pharmacology, University of Turku, FIN-20520 Turku, Finland.
Studies on animal models of stress, anxiety, aggression, and sensorimotor gating have linked specific monoamine neurotransmitter abnormalities to the cognitive and behavioral disturbances associated with many affective neuropsychiatric disorders. Although alpha2-adrenoceptors (alpha2-ARs) have been suggested to have a modulatory role in these disorders, the specific roles of each alpha2-AR subtype (alpha2A, alpha2B, and alpha2C) are largely unknown. The restricted availability of relevant animal models and the lack of subtype-selective alpha2-AR drugs have precluded detailed studies in this area. Therefore, transgenic mice were used to study the possible role of the alpha2C-AR subtype in two well established behavioral paradigms: prepulse inhibition (PPI) of the startle reflex and isolation-induced aggression. The alpha2C-AR-altered mice appear grossly normal, but subtle changes have been observed in their brain dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) metabolism. In this study, the mice with targeted inactivation of the gene encoding alpha2C-ARs (alpha2C-KO) had enhanced startle responses, diminished PPI, and shortened attack latency in the isolation-aggression test, whereas tissue-specific overexpression of alpha2C-ARs (alpha2C-OE) was associated with opposite effects. Correlation analyses suggested that both the magnitude of the startle response and its relative PPI (PPI%) were modulated by the mutations. In addition, the differences in PPI, observed between drug-naive alpha2C-OE mice and their wild-type controls, were abolished by treatment with a subtype nonselective alpha2-agonist and antagonist. Thus, drugs acting via alpha2C-ARs might have therapeutic value in disorders associated with enhanced <supressed?>startle responses and sensorimotor gating deficits, such as schizophrenia, attention deficit disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and drug withdrawal....< and homosexual behavioral disorder? :D>
So you think sexual preference is a personal choice? At what exact time this morning did you decide today was going to be a "heterosexual day"?
What the hell are you talking about? A boy is born with a penis, a girl is born with you know what, male and female they are ... where do you get homosexuals out of that? They're born that way? Bullshit, they learn to be that way.
wendy
10-02-2003, 03:42 PM
Bullshit, they learn to be that way.
So you could decide to be that way tomorrow, right?
So you could decide to be that way tomorrow, right?
Perhaps ... how do we know how a man would act if he was incarcerated for life, do you? If you think about something long enough you will act it out. It's a choice they make unless you can provide convincing evidence to the contrary.
What's next, murderers are born that way? ::)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=952602 0&dopt=Abstract
Adrenergic alpha2C-receptors modulate the acoustic startle reflex, prepulse inhibition, and aggression in mice.
Sallinen J, Haapalinna A, Viitamaa T, Kobilka BK, Scheinin M.
Department of Pharmacology and Clinical Pharmacology, University of Turku, FIN-20520 Turku, Finland.
Studies on animal models of stress, anxiety, aggression, and sensorimotor gating have linked specific monoamine neurotransmitter abnormalities to the cognitive and behavioral disturbances associated with many affective neuropsychiatric disorders. Although alpha2-adrenoceptors (alpha2-ARs) have been suggested to have a modulatory role in these disorders, the specific roles of each alpha2-AR subtype (alpha2A, alpha2B, and alpha2C) are largely unknown. The restricted availability of relevant animal models and the lack of subtype-selective alpha2-AR drugs have precluded detailed studies in this area. Therefore, transgenic mice were used to study the possible role of the alpha2C-AR subtype in two well established behavioral paradigms: prepulse inhibition (PPI) of the startle reflex and isolation-induced aggression. The alpha2C-AR-altered mice appear grossly normal, but subtle changes have been observed in their brain dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) metabolism. In this study, the mice with targeted inactivation of the gene encoding alpha2C-ARs (alpha2C-KO) had enhanced startle responses, diminished PPI, and shortened attack latency in the isolation-aggression test, whereas tissue-specific overexpression of alpha2C-ARs (alpha2C-OE) was associated with opposite effects. Correlation analyses suggested that both the magnitude of the startle response and its relative PPI (PPI%) were modulated by the mutations. In addition, the differences in PPI, observed between drug-naive alpha2C-OE mice and their wild-type controls, were abolished by treatment with a subtype nonselective alpha2-agonist and antagonist. Thus, drugs acting via alpha2C-ARs might have therapeutic value in disorders associated with enhanced <supressed?>startle responses and sensorimotor gating deficits, such as schizophrenia, attention deficit disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and drug withdrawal....< and homosexual behavioral disorder? :D>
”The alpha2C-AR-altered mice appear grossly normal…”
Isn’t science FUN?!!
:D
What are next, “hard-wired” pedophiles? Or "hard-wired" lawyers, or "hard-wired" this and that? What are we, a bunch of robots, pre-programmed with absolutely no control over our lives?
When does personal responsibility for our lives take place? Never?
It appears that this study was conducted under the auspices of the modern, scientific consensus of sexuality essentialism. That means that “sexual orientation” is defined by the “homo-bi-hetero” rubric, and that it pertains to deeply held feelings, attractions, and often identity.
So “hard-wired this-and-that” was simply not part of the scope of the research. This was research into the relationship between a physiologically measurable quality… and sexuality. As such, it had NOTHING to do with personal responsibility, nothing to do with sexual behavior, and certainly nothing to do with personal moral outlooks.
Incidentally, I am not yet convinced of the veracity of this research. Apparently, it has not yet been peer review or replicated. At this point it is simply… interesting.
What the hell are you talking about? A boy is born with a penis, a girl is born with you know what, male and female they are ... where do you get homosexuals out of that? They're born that way? Bullshit, they learn to be that way.
Heh… so you’re suggesting that folks are hardwired according to gender?
(… he asked with baited breath.)
;)
Perhaps ... how do we know how a man would act if he was incarcerated for life, do you? If you think about something long enough you will act it out. It's a choice they make unless you can provide convincing evidence to the contrary.
What's next, murderers are born that way? ::)
”ACT!”
Good… “situational homosexuality” is the textbook example of folks BEHAVING in manners that are NOT aligned to their sexual orientation.
If you understand THAT… then you must accept mainstream essentialism, and jettison the minority view of “behavioral constructionism.”
There may very well be a biological imperative… or influence… to “murder.” That, of course, does not excuse such behavior in a civilized society.
Heh… so you’re suggesting that folks are hardwired according to gender?
(… he asked with baited breath.)
;)
Humans aren't 'hardwired' for anything, if they are then none of us are responsible for the choices we make, we are what we are and there is no guilt, no shame, nothing except the law to stop us from doing what we were wired for. Just because a boy is born with a penis doesn't mean he's hotwired to poke it into another boy's butt ... he learned that and thought about it until that was his desire but he never was designed to be that way.
”ACT!”
Good… “situational homosexuality” is the textbook example of folks BEHAVING in manners that are NOT aligned to their sexual orientation.
If you understand THAT… then you must accept mainstream essentialism, and jettison the minority view of “behavioral constructionism.”
There may very well be a biological imperative… or influence… to “murder.” That, of course, does not excuse such behavior in a civilized society.
And that could be said for homosexual behavior.
Humans aren't 'hardwired' for anything, if they are then none of us are responsible for the choices we make, we are what we are and there is no guilt, no shame, nothing except the law to stop us from doing what we were wired for. Just because a boy is born with a penis doesn't mean he's hotwired to poke it into another boy's butt ... he learned that and thought about it until that was his desire but he never was designed to be that way.
First… I must disagree. Humans are most certainly “hardwired” in at least some manners… the fact that we have involuntary reflexes (such as breathing… instinct… survival, etc) proves that. So your premise is problematic.
Then you make this intuitive leap to responsibility for “choices.” Where the heck did THAT come from? They weren’t RESEARCHING “choices.” I’ve already admitted that sexual behavior is “optional”… at least in civilized humans. Beasts may rut… but we “higher beings” are expected to use our head… the “big head,” that is.
Now… you are claiming that same-sex sodomy is a “learned” behavior. I cannot entirely agree with that. Sometimes, certainly… but not always. (Don’t toddlers go through a feces-smearing phase during toilet training? Were they “taught” to do that?)
Since we are civilized, we CANNOT conduct this heinous experiment… but consider this: Take two newborn boys and lock them in a room for life. Provide them with sustenance and medical care… but with no external human contact whatsoever.
What do you think… will “sodomy” be a probability… perhaps even an eventuality? Hmm? What if it were a GIRL and a boy locked away… what would happen? Would they eventually “figure it out? No “learning” involved… just instinct… including natural curiosity… what would happen?
The recent case of the Bellmore/Merrick football team hazing incident… were they sticking things up their buddies’ bums because they were “taught” to do that… or because things just happen to fit up there? Following protocol… or exploring?
But you see… all of this behavior is not the same thing as sexual orientation as we now understand it. This stuff has nothing to do with the wetware… the mind, the brains, the identity.
Yes, environment (IE: “learning”) can certainly influence that… but we can no longer dispute the biological influence.
And that could be said for homosexual behavior.
“Homosexual behavior” is not akin to MURDER. The latter clearly VICTIMIZES… ALWAYS… the former does not.
Invalid simile.
First… I must disagree. Humans are most certainly “hardwired” in at least some manners… the fact that we have involuntary reflexes (such as breathing… instinct… survival, etc) proves that. So your premise is problematic.
Then you make this intuitive leap to responsibility for “choices.” Where the heck did THAT come from? They weren’t RESEARCHING “choices.” I’ve already admitted that sexual behavior is “optional”… at least in civilized humans. Beasts may rut… but we “higher beings” are expected to use our head… the “big head,” that is.
Now… you are claiming that same-sex sodomy is a “learned” behavior. I cannot entirely agree with that. Sometimes, certainly… but not always. (Don’t toddlers go through a feces-smearing phase during toilet training? Were they “taught” to do that?)
Since we are civilized, we CANNOT conduct this heinous experiment… but consider this: Take two newborn boys and lock them in a room for life. Provide them with sustenance and medical care… but with no external human contact whatsoever.
What do you think… will “sodomy” be a probability… perhaps even an eventuality? Hmm? What if it were a GIRL and a boy locked away… what would happen? Would they eventually “figure it out? No “learning” involved… just instinct… including natural curiosity… what would happen?
The recent case of the Bellmore/Merrick football team hazing incident… were they sticking things up their buddies’ bums because they were “taught” to do that… or because things just happen to fit up there? Following protocol… or exploring?
But you see… all of this behavior is not the same thing as sexual orientation as we now understand it. This stuff has nothing to do with the wetware… the mind, the brains, the identity.
Yes, environment (IE: “learning”) can certainly influence that… but we can no longer dispute the biological influence.
“Homosexual behavior” is not akin to MURDER. The latter clearly VICTIMIZES… ALWAYS… the former does not.
Invalid simile.
Well we will never agree as to the cause of homosexuality and I agree there are automatic responses in humans but not to butt fuck each other, that is learned behavior, which begins in the brain and is thought out and then acted upon. In my book it is immoral behavior, which I know you don’t agree with, but I do and it will take some very hard (no pun intended) evidence to convince me otherwise. What you do is your business MADG, I hope you know it's not personal against you as some would react to you but a firm belief I have that homosexuality is just plain wrong.
Well we will never agree as to the cause of homosexuality and I agree there are automatic responses in humans but not to butt fuck each other, that is learned behavior, which begins in the brain and is thought out and then acted upon. In my book it is immoral behavior, which I know you don’t agree with, but I do and it will take some very hard (no pun intended) evidence to convince me otherwise. What you do is your business MADG, I hope you know it's not personal against you as some would react to you but a firm belief I have that homosexuality is just plain wrong.
You seem to be mixing morality and science. Morality is subjective… science is objective… and never the twain shall meet… or, never the twain SHOULD meet. I’m not asking you (or anyone) to accept or justify any kind of sexual behavior. That’s not what this is about.
Even the Pope can tell the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior… shouldn’t you?
One is “chosen,” the other is not. This isn’t too tough.
Let me demonstrate:
“Hi there… my name is MADG… and I am a GAY man.”
Okay… now YOU tell everyone EVERYTHING you know about my sex life.
Go ahead… don’t spare us the messy details… tell everyone EVERYTHING you know about me… when, where, how often, what position, with whom… and the color of their hair…
… of course, I’ll be judging you for accuracy… but since you infer to know about my “immoral behavior,” that shouldn’t stop you.
… right?
The fact is that I am gay REGARDLESS of whether or not I am having sex.
(Which is nobody’s business, anyway.)
And by simply identifying myself as a GAY man… you should NOT be spinning off into “morality” tales.
“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is a lovely sentiment… but it is absolutely meaningless if you make no distinction between the two.
There is, without a doubt, a biological influence to sexual orientation determination.
You seem to be mixing morality and science. Morality is subjective… science is objective… and never the twain shall meet… or, never the twain SHOULD meet. I’m not asking you (or anyone) to accept or justify any kind of sexual behavior. That’s not what this is about.
Even the Pope can tell the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior… shouldn’t you?
One is “chosen,” the other is not. This isn’t too tough.
Let me demonstrate:
“Hi there… my name is MADG… and I am a GAY man.”
Okay… now YOU tell everyone EVERYTHING you know about my sex life.
Go ahead… don’t spare us the messy details… tell everyone EVERYTHING you know about me… when, where, how often, what position, with whom… and the color of their hair…
… of course, I’ll be judging you for accuracy… but since you infer to know about my “immoral behavior,” that shouldn’t stop you.
… right?
The fact is that I am gay REGARDLESS of whether or not I am having sex.
(Which is nobody’s business, anyway.)
And by simply identifying myself as a GAY man… you should NOT be spinning off into “morality” tales.
“Love the sinner, hate the sin” is a lovely sentiment… but it is absolutely meaningless if you make no distinction between the two.
There is, without a doubt, a biological influence to sexual orientation determination.
The Pope? ;D Shit, I don't listen to him.
Listen, it's moral with me no matter what science has to say, science changes from day to day. Okay, you think it's subjective, fine, but that's where I'm coming from and I see no reason to abandon those beliefs because 'some' scientist think this or that. I don't plan my future based on science, I don't trust the 'arm of flesh'.
The Pope? ;D Shit, I don't listen to him.
Listen, it's moral with me no matter what science has to say, science changes from day to day. Okay, you think it's subjective, fine, but that's where I'm coming from and I see no reason to abandon those beliefs because 'some' scientist think this or that. I don't plan my future based on science, I don't trust the 'arm of flesh'.
“Does a bear work Sundays… in the woods?” :D
But WHAT is “immoral” to you? Me? My identity… my SELF? I don’t expect you (or anyone) to “abandon beliefs”… but this news item, and this research, was not ABOUT “beliefs.” It’s about Science.
So much of this discussion (and I mean “big picture,” not just me and you) gets lost in the semantics and definitions… and the scope. SOME try to take advantage of that… try to “mix it up” between the personal outlook… the opinion… the FAITH… and the Science.
So long as we can agree that we’re talking about different things… I’m okay with that. Everyone is entitled to his or her own Faith…
… this is America.
Take Care…
BTW…
… is “arm of flesh” the same thing as “a baby’s arm holding an apple?” ???
(Jus' wonderin'...)
8)
BTW…
… is “arm of flesh” the same thing as “a baby’s arm holding an apple?” ???
(Jus' wonderin'...)
8)
Arm of the flesh is trusting in man and not God.
“Does a bear work Sundays… in the woods?” :D
But WHAT is “immoral” to you? Me? My identity… my SELF? I don’t expect you (or anyone) to “abandon beliefs”… but this news item, and this research, was not ABOUT “beliefs.” It’s about Science.
So much of this discussion (and I mean “big picture,” not just me and you) gets lost in the semantics and definitions… and the scope. SOME try to take advantage of that… try to “mix it up” between the personal outlook… the opinion… the FAITH… and the Science.
So long as we can agree that we’re talking about different things… I’m okay with that. Everyone is entitled to his or her own Faith…
… this is America.
Take Care…
Yes we are talking about different things ... science is science, a search for the truth, what is true or thought to be true today can be folly tomorrow.
Thanks and you take care too.
blurb
10-02-2003, 10:40 PM
”The alpha2C-AR-altered mice appear grossly normal…”
Isn’t science FUN?!!
:D
<SNORT!>
blurb
10-02-2003, 10:46 PM
So much of this discussion (and I mean “big picture,” not just me and you) gets lost in the semantics and definitions… and the scope. SOME try to take advantage of that… try to “mix it up” between the personal outlook… the opinion… the FAITH… and the Science.
....and of course, more importantly, the agenda
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