Best martial art (skills)

[Cooper]

The best martial arts for striking skills are Boxing and Muay Thai, nothing else comes close.

And the best martial art for grappling skills is definitely Brazilian Jujitsu.

[Tiger]

I'm not EVEN going to take this bait. Nanny-nanny-boo-boo :P


Besides you-know-who will be along shortly to tell you are wrong. ;D

But for the record - Kenpo is much better at strikes. You could be right about grappling. 8)

[Cooper]

But for the record - Kenpo is much better at strikes.

LMAO

[Cooper]

Ok, few people have the time nor the inclination to take three, four or even more martial arts to have the necessary skills to realistically be able to fight.

With this in mind what is the best single martial art to take?

I think the school is more important than the art but then not all arts are equal either. IMO look for schools of these arts;

Brazilian jujitsu
Japanese jujitsu
Judo
Any club that competes in mixed martial arts competitions.

Stay away from Aikido, Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo.

[Persephone]

Why would you say stay away from Tai Chi? It's not even about fighting, is it? Why mention it with the others?

[Thunder Bay]

What's up, Coop? Did y'all just start gettin' reruns of Kung Fu or somethin'? ::)

[CaptainKirk]

Ok, few people have the time nor the inclination to take three, four or even more martial arts to have the necessary skills to realistically be able to fight.

With this in mind what is the best single martial art to take?

I think the school is more important than the art but then not all arts are equal either. IMO look for schools of these arts;

Brazilian jujitsu
Japanese jujitsu
Judo
Any club that competes in mixed martial arts competitions.



Ok Coop,

your the one in the know...

Plusses and minusses......
Stay away from Aikido, Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo.

[guido]

Stay away from Aikido, Tai Chi, Tae Kwon Do and Kenpo.



I would agree with your comment on TKD, but as you said, sometimes the school is more important than the art. That said, there are TKD schools that stay away from the pathetic "point" attacks and spend the majority of time teaching "one step" and street fighting techniques. My school was one such school. Remember, when we're talking about "self defense" we're not talking about fighting somebody on the street that has alot of skill from some other martial art. We're mostly talking about thugs going after someone mostly because they look like an easy target. TKD's bad rap comes mostly from comparing it to other arts head to head, not as a self defense tool.

As far as Judo goes, my father was a Judo instructor when I wa young, and from experience, I can say it's smart to make a decision on whether you're going to actually compete, or use it as a self defense tool..........one or the other. Judo competition is VERY hard on the body.

[guido]

Why would you say stay away from Tai Chi? It's not even about fighting, is it? Why mention it with the others?


It's more about fighting than most "new agers" know. Most new agers don't know the history behind Tai Chi, and it's original development as a fighting art.

http://www.taichiworldwide.com/what2.htm

[Persephone]

It's more about fighting than most "new agers" know. Most new agers don't know the history behind Tai Chi, and it's original development as a fighting art.

http://www.taichiworldwide.com/what2.htm


Thanks for the link. Interesting. I had no idea Princess Diana practiced Tai Chi. :D

Are there places in this country that teach it as a fighting art? I've never seen that side of it before, but then I'm very ignorant of martial arts.

I really must make an appointment with my eye doctor. At first squint, I thought the name of this thread was "Best Marital Aid."

[guido]

I really must make an appointment with my eye doctor. At first squint, I thought the name of this thread was "Best Marital Aid."


Then why would YOU have joined in? ;D

[guido]

Thanks for the link. Interesting. I had no idea Princess Diana practiced Tai Chi. :D

Are there places in this country that teach it as a fighting art? I've never seen that side of it before, but then I'm very ignorant of martial arts.


I couldn't give you a list, but yes, there are. Alot of schools that teach authentic Kung Fu also teach Tai Chi.

[kathleen]

I really must make an appointment with my eye doctor. At first squint, I thought the name of this thread was "Best Marital Aid."


And in your "expert" opinion, it would be what?

[CaptainKirk]

And in your "expert" opinion, it would be what?

no need to reinvent the gerbil wheel as weve already covered that ground earlier during, if you recall, his "witholding sex gambit"......

its the dildo-of the negroid persuasion. One of his ex wives...was it 2, 3, or 1? hmmmmmm..no matter, obtained one and performed audibly nearby, in order for him to have a choice seat while watching old Amos n Andy shows on VHS..........

[Observer]

Besides you-know-who will be along shortly to tell you are wrong.

No. I said YOU were wrong because you were.

The question Coop asked has no right or wrong answer. It is much like asking "What's the best defensive pistol".

The answer is the same... The best defensive pistol is the one you have in your hand when you need it. The best martial art is the one you find that fits you phyically and mentally and you practice enough for it to be there when you need it.

[Cooper]

The question Coop asked has no right or wrong answer. It is much like asking "What's the best defensive pistol".

The answer is the same... The best defensive pistol is the one you have in your hand when you need it. The best martial art is the one you find that fits you phyically and mentally and you practice enough for it to be there when you need it.


Bullshido Observer

Because a .22 in the hand is better than a .38 in the closet, doesn’t mean one should choose the .22 over a .38. One sensibly chooses the .38 because it is a better cartridge for self defence.

If you have a choice between Taekwondo and Jujitsu one should choose Jujitsu because it is better than Taekwondo for self defence.

As for fitting, better that your art fits the reality of fighting than it fits your limitations.

[Cooper]

Remember, when we're talking about "self defense" we're not talking about fighting somebody on the street that has alot of skill from some other martial art. We're mostly talking about thugs going after someone mostly because they look like an easy target. TKD's bad rap comes mostly from comparing it to other arts head to head, not as a self defense tool.


Assuming that thugs don’t have skill is overly optimistic and dangerous. Some thugs are very skilled and almost all of them will have more experience than you. Why settle for poor tools when good ones are available?

[Observer]

The point, Coop is that a .38 in the closet is of no use to you. The .22 in your hand may not be the best tool on the market, but it'll work better than that .38 you don't have.

If you choose a fighting style with which you are not comfortable, either because of body type or mindset, you are not likely to train often enough to gain the level of proficiency you need to use it in a defensive situation. If you choose a style you enjoy practicing and you practice that style often and become proficient, it is likely to serve you better than some style that by its nature may be more efficient, but of which, you possess only a very basic knowledge.

I will agree that a .38 is a better defensive tool than a .22. But a good shot armed with a .22 will drop you quicker than a lousy shot with a .38 or a .45.

[Cooper]

I don’t think the gun analogy is the best, guns are tools and martial arts are skills, it’s like apples and oranges.

And since when should training be comfortable or fit your mindset. Real fights aren’t comfortable and only fit the mid set of a fighter. I had a coach who said fighters are made not born.

Train hard and fight easy.

Train easy and get your ass kicked.

[Observer]

Nobody said train easy. The thing is, body type and mindset ARE important considerations when choosing a fighting style.

Some styles are better suited for small, quick fighters. Others are better suited for strong, powerful fighters. Could somebody who is 6'2"/240 fight the same way as Paulie Zink? Could somebody who is 5'2"/140 fight the same way as Coleman? They could force themselves to try, but it is unlikely either of them would be successful.

The key is to find the style that fits you and become VERY good at it. It is fine to borrow techniques from other forms to round out the weaknesses in your particular system, but you are fighting in a way contrary to what is right for you, you are defeating yourself.

[Cooper]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

Two decades of mixed martial arts have clearly demonstrated which arts are good for fighting and which ones aren’t.

And WINNING is the style that suits me best.


Paulie Zink and monkey crap fu! I’d run over him like a freight train.

[Observer]

You might. But the point is, no matter how hard Zink might try, he could never run over YOU like a freight train. Do you see what I am saying?

I agree with you that some styles have advantages in certain areas over others. I think Jujitsu and Judo stylists are probably among the best grapplers around. I don't think most Muay Thai fighters are particularly effective punchers, but they make excellent use of their elbows and knees. Boxers are probably the best punchers, but are almost unversally weak in all other aspects of fighting. Wrestlers.. strong and fast, good for the takedown, generally lousy finishers.

You can take any fighting style out there and dissect it to find both strengthas and weaknesses. That is why the fighter is more important than the style.

Two decades of mixed martial arts have clearly demonstrated which arts are good for fighting and which ones aren’t.

I don't completely agree with this statement. MMA has pointed out a lot of weaknesses in various styles... sort of. Mostly it has pointed out a lot of weaknesses in various stylists. There are an awful lot of fighting styles out there whose practitioners have never stepped into the ring. The fact that they haven't been tested at Pride or in the UFC doesn't mean they haven't been tested for generations on the street, in the countryside, in the jungle...

[Cooper]

There are an awful lot of fighting styles out there whose practitioners have never stepped into the ring.

They have the talk but they don’t have the walk.

[Cooper]

I agree with you that some styles have advantages in certain areas over others.

So if you had to choose only one art (for fighting), which one would you take?

[Observer]

If I had to choose only one, it would be a tough call for me between Hapkido and Jujitsu. I guess if I absolutely HAD to choose only ONE, it would be Jujitsu.


That was NOT easy to say.

[Cooper]

If I had to choose only one, it would be a tough call for me between Hapkido and Jujitsu. I guess if I absolutely HAD to choose only ONE, it would be Jujitsu.


That was NOT easy to say.


LOL ;)

[Cooper]

Ok if you had to do it all over what three arts would you take?

For me;

#1 Mixed Martial Arts like the Lions Den (Shamrock)
#2 Judo
#3 Mauy Thai

[guido]

Assuming that thugs don’t have skill is overly optimistic and dangerous. Some thugs are very skilled and almost all of them will have more experience than you. Why settle for poor tools when good ones are available?


Perhaps, but based on experience, I'd have to say you're wrong. After several confrontations, one of them being life threatening, to say the least.....I've yet to run into anybody with anything more than street fighting skills. That's only MY experience, though.

[guido]

They have the talk but they don’t have the walk.



On the contrary, they respect their art for the way it was intended....a tool for survival. It's an insult to the arts to use them for competitive trophy grabbing. It's also an insult to the term "self defense"

Oh.....and the best ones rarely even "have the talk"

[Thunder Bay]

Hong kong fooey. ::)

[guido]

This is an excellent statement:

"Self defence is an incredibly complex and unpredictable subject. There is absolutely *no* "you just do this" answer. Nor is there a "he deserves whatever he gets" answer that won't end up putting you in prison if you actually use it. But more importantly there is no such thing as a guaranteed move, style or ultimate fighting art. And anybody who tells you differently is selling something.

And what they are selling is a lazy fantasy. One, that if you ever find yourself in a legitimate SD situation, will either get you killed or in deep, deep legal trouble."


http://www.diac.com/~dgordon/commercialschools.html

[guido]

More intelligent thought:

"Abusing the self-defense plea
Begin by accepting the fact: Police tend to arrest the winner of a fight.

That is true because, in about 95 percent of the cases, the winner was the aggressor. If he was not the instigator of the fight, then he is almost always the one who went the farthest out of line and to the most extreme. And that, by legal definition, made him the aggressor -- even if he did not start it.

Perhaps the most important thing for you to realize is that when it comes to the self-defense plea, that pool has been seriously pissed in. And it has been polluted for a long, long time. Even if the guy really did just walk up and, without any provocation, knock you off the bar stool, when the cops show up there is at least a 75 percent chance of his claiming it was self-defense. If there was a confrontation where words were exchanged prior to blows, the odds go up to about 97 percent.

The reality of the situation doesn't matter, that is what he is going to tell the cops. He's going to lie to try to avoid going to jail. This is about as unpredictable as the sunrise, in otherwords, it will happen. Recognize that the police have just shown up on the scene. They have no idea who is telling the truth. But what they do know is that both parties are telling them the same thing -- except who was to blame. On that one they are accusing each other.

Most officers tend to assume (and often rightly so) that both parties are guilty. Depending how severe the altercation is, they will act accordingly and arrest you both. If you are in a smaller or more affluent jurisdiction, arrest is almost guaranteed if it went physical. In larger metropolitan areas or on busy nights, you *might* get away without being arrested -- if you blatantly lost the fight or can present a calm and reasonable justification for your actions. But I wouldn't rely on that.

In a nutshell, the police have seen 999 times where both parties were guilty of stupid, obnoxious and illegal behavior (which is the difference between fighting and self-defense), so don't be surprised if they don't look at you as that one exception in a thousand. And this is especially true if you weren't the exception."


http://www.diac.com/~dgordon/fight_selfdefense.html

[guido]

Hong kong fooey. ::)


Hong Kong Fooey to youey
;D

[Cooper]

On the contrary, they respect their art for the way it was intended....a tool for survival. It's an insult to the arts to use them for competitive trophy grabbing.

They were asked to prove their martial prowess and they didn’t even try. Instead they gave excuses for not trying.

[Cooper]

SELF-DEFENCE… I thought we were talking about fighting.

I ain’t no self defence expert, I only know how to win fights.

[guido]

SELF-DEFENCE… I thought we were talking about fighting.

I ain’t no self defence expert, I only know how to win fights.



Fair enough.......there's a vast difference between the two.

[guido]

They were asked to prove their martial prowess and they didn’t even try. Instead they gave excuses for not trying.


What is your idea of an excuse? I would also walk away if asked to prove my martial prowess. Asking someone to prove themselves is the height of arrogance........being talked into doing it is a close second.

[Cooper]

Bullshido!

If one claims to have a better product than their competitor for sale, one should be willing to prove it.

The Gracies claimed to have the best martial arts style in the world and took on all comers to prove it.

What have your guys done lately?

[guido]

Bullshido!

If one claims to have a better product than their competitor for sale, one should be willing to prove it.

The Gracies claimed to have the best martial arts style in the world and took on all comers to prove it.

What have your guys done lately?



I don't have any guys.

Did the guys you and Observer were talking about specifically say they had the best martial art?

I stand by what I said......challanges are arrogant, period. The best art depends on the teacher's experience, and the student's abilities and/or limitations.

[Observer]

They were asked to prove their martial prowess and they didn’t even try. Instead they gave excuses for not trying.

Coop, I assume you are talking about the open invitation to enter the ring and compete against people from other styles, as in the UFC. What you are not accepting is that a great many very serious martial artists have absolutely no desire to to turm their art into a game or a spectacle. They go through life honing their martial skills, while at the same time trying to live their lives in a way that will never cause them to have to use those same skills.

The most successful artists are the ones who NEVER have to throw a punch in anger. Being unwilling to step into the ring does not make ineffective fighters, nor does it make them cowards.

In answer to your earlier question... If I had it to do over again and could pick 3 styles to study, what would they be?

I would remain with Hapkido and Jujitsu. For a third style to round out the others... I'll have to think about it. Perhaps something like Krav Maga. I'll ponder it for a while.

[Cooper]

Being unwilling to step into the ring does not make ineffective fighters, nor does it make them cowards.


Being unwilling to step into the ring makes any claims of martial arts skill unproven.

[Observer]

Only to people who watch pay per view.

What goes on in the dojos, dojangs, kwoons, or back rooms where the training takes place is what matters.

[Cooper]

Hey Sherlock

Do you know what “burden of proof” means?

The Gracie’s claims have met the “burden of proof”. I’m waiting for a Hapkido stylist to do the same.

I suppose the same lofty ideals which prevent you from participating in something as base as sports also prevents you from applying the scientific principle.