View Full Version : Looking for answers
Jezebel
02-02-2003, 05:06 PM
If you were an agnostic looking for answers to the mysteries of life, where would you start?
If you were an agnostic looking for answers to the mysteries of life, where would you start?
I'd ask myself whether I were willing to face my own inadequacies as a person. If the answer was no, I'd forget it, and eat, drink, and be merry until such time as the answer was yes. :)
Jezebel
02-02-2003, 05:32 PM
If I weren't able to face those inadequacies would I be looking?
wendy
02-02-2003, 05:44 PM
Within.
Damn. I thought you were going to say The Yellow Pages.
If I weren't able to face those inadequacies would I be looking?
Some people think they're looking for truth when they're really looking for the false realization that they're something special. I've made that mistake myself. If you're not inclined that way, you're halfway there already, I'd say.
If I weren't able to face those inadequacies would I be looking?
Shouldn't you be asking yourself that question?
Lance
02-02-2003, 05:52 PM
There are two ways of looking at this particular issue. The religious way tends to say that there must be an answer; ergo if the question can not be answered logically, "god did it" is always valid.
This works very well for those of us that HAVE to have an answer or who hate those three little words "I don't know".
For the agnostic or non-religious person, we take comfort in the fact that we ARE LOOKING. That we have not taken the easy way out and said "oh, I don't know. God did it!".
You can substitute the "pretty pink unicorn" equally for god and be just as valid there too.
This also goes back to how comfortable you are in looking at death. Me, the thought sucks. And I just buried a younger brother last year, so it really really does suck. I DO NOT KNOW what happens after death. Or if anything happens. We may be worm-food, we may be some kind of metaphysical entity out of Childhood's End.
This again goes back to your comfort level with "I don't know". Religion of any kind rarely has any proof of what it offers beyond this plane of existance. You take it on faith and to me it is nothing more than a security blanket over those "I don't knows" that are terrifying to most humans.
Then there is the universal question of "why are we here?" Many religions make something up, but no one really knows; they are all theories. And it is the human desire to be important, to be known, to be recognized, that drives us to demand a "reason".
There may be one. There may not. Either way, life will happen. Good, bad, so-so, and fun. And you only get one shot in this physical existance, so you might as well make the most of it.
If you were an agnostic looking for answers to the mysteries of life, where would you start?
First thing to do is take your head out of your asshole.
Oh, and Jezebel, above all else, stay away from LanceALott and Yukon. :)
There are two ways of looking at this particular issue. The religious way tends to say that there must be an answer; ergo if the question can not be answered logically, "god did it" is always valid.
This works very well for those of us that HAVE to have an answer or who hate those three little words "I don't know".
For the agnostic or non-religious person, we take comfort in the fact that we ARE LOOKING. That we have not taken the easy way out and said "oh, I don't know. God did it!".
You can substitute the "pretty pink unicorn" equally for god and be just as valid there too.
This also goes back to how comfortable you are in looking at death. Me, the thought sucks. And I just buried a younger brother last year, so it really really does suck. I DO NOT KNOW what happens after death. Or if anything happens. We may be worm-food, we may be some kind of metaphysical entity out of Childhood's End.
This again goes back to your comfort level with "I don't know". Religion of any kind rarely has any proof of what it offers beyond this plane of existance. You take it on faith and to me it is nothing more than a security blanket over those "I don't knows" that are terrifying to most humans.
Then there is the universal question of "why are we here?" Many religions make something up, but no one really knows; they are all theories. And it is the human desire to be important, to be known, to be recognized, that drives us to demand a "reason".
There may be one. There may not. Either way, life will happen. Good, bad, so-so, and fun. And you only get one shot in this physical existance, so you might as well make the most of it.
"Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you will die", huh?
Within.
Damn good answer there badnews. It's no wonder I like you, you come up with some good stuff. This is the answer.
Within.
Damn good answer there badnews. It's no wonder I like you, you come up with some good stuff. This is the answer.
Do you realize one of the reasons I was "kicked off" of EZ is because I have "nothing of value to say?"
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:16 PM
If one is an agnostic looking for answers.....
hmmmmm
Reading the great philosophers, many of them at one time or another agnostic themselves....
Reading literature.....poetry is filled with man's search for meaning, but also novels....
The human condition itself is the medium for meaning, even if one is in the habit of seeing God at the helm....
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:24 PM
They are not lost at all...The answers are there always, but the search is part of the fun...
How can we touch our souls? We live within ourselves on a daily basis....are we separate from our souls--I don't think we are....I just think sometimes we let the static noise interfere with our better interests....the mind is an incredible thing, our emotions are not necessarily a separate entity at all....
I think people look for answers to the big question about death because we are afraid of death more than anything else, really....it is the ultimate change. the ultimate fact of life...but, death as we see it is an illusion, really, because we cannot contemplate or comprehend what death brings....
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
I like to refer to it as the voice within, which is our conscience. We all have a conscience and access to that voice, to make choices. I think we are born with it and it goes with us through out this life and the choices we make, make us the person we are.
Lance
02-02-2003, 06:29 PM
Not at all. For some, that might be their way. For others, it may be that great quest into the unknown. (Our astronauts, for example.)
I also believe we spend way too much time worrying about something we have little to no control over. And thus lose today, worrying about tomorrow.
wendy
02-02-2003, 06:29 PM
death as we see it is an illusion, really, because we cannot contemplate or comprehend what death brings....
Do you mean the inability to comprehend the end of our individual existence...or the refusal to accept it?
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:31 PM
lonestar...
yes, I also feel there is a voice, but we have more than one voice within us sometimes and these can be in conflict with each other...
ie there is the voice of condemnation which tells us why we are not living up to our full potential and fusses at us on a daily basis (I am experiencing this at the moment, so I feel this voice at its pesty best...)
there is a voice which wants us to take the time to relax and enjoy life and not worry, but simple be...
there is a voice which requires us to take care of daily business in order to survive, even when we would rather take the time to simply be,
and so on.... :)
How can we touch our souls?
How can you dare to write poetry and not know the answer to this question? Without being able to feel within, they are merely words...unheard, I might suggest.
lonestar...
yes, I also feel there is a voice, but we have more than one voice within us sometimes and these can be in conflict with each other...
ie there is the voice of condemnation which tells us why we are not living up to our full potential and fusses at us on a daily basis (I am experiencing this at the moment, so I feel this voice at its pesty best...)
there is a voice which wants us to take the time to relax and enjoy life and not worry, but simple be...
there is a voice which requires us to take care of daily business in order to survive, even when we would rather take the time to simply be,
and so on.... :)
Mr 5:9 -
And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Not at all. For some, that might be their way. For others, it may be that great quest into the unknown. (Our astronauts, for example.)
I also believe we spend way too much time worrying about something we have little to no control over. And thus lose today, worrying about tomorrow.
Well we've discussed this in the past but it seems to me if there is no continuance of life after death, than what is the purpose of life? What noble purpose would there be preparing all your life to be a good person, take care of your family, enjoy success and appreciate life around you then die and than nothing?
Perhaps we have more control than you know.
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:37 PM
Wendy.
I honestly think there is a little of both operating at the same time..it is hard to accept death and equally difficult to contemplate what that ultimate end means...
I have had many young friends die over the years for some reason--I live in an area with a high suicide rate, for one thing as well as a high incidence of running one's tcar into a tree. My 30 yr old doctor died when I was 27. She was always telling me to quite smoking....she died smokefree of a heart attack from overwork, they think...
I don't know the answers really. I have made a certain committment to a faith which has come to me rather than I went to it....a long story.
But, I still think about these things because they are part of my own search...just because I happen to be a Christian doesn't mean that I have lost my questioning mode....maybe I should have and didn't. I don't know really....
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:39 PM
How can we touch our souls?
How can you dare to write poetry and not know the answer to this question? Without being able to feel within, they are merely words...unheard, I might suggest.
Maybe that is why I am not published... :)
Jezebel
02-02-2003, 06:40 PM
Well we've discussed this in the past but it seems to me if there is no continuance of life after death, than what is the purpose of life? What noble purpose would there be preparing all your life to be a good person, take care of your family, enjoy success and appreciate life around you then die and than nothing?
Perhaps we have more control than you know.
Is life more valuable if you know you only have one chance?
I'm not convinced that believing you only have one chance would make you squander that one opportunity.
How can you dare to write poetry and not know the answer to this question? Without being able to feel within, they are merely words...unheard, I might suggest.
Maybe that is why I am not published... :)
Maybe it's easier than you think...to feel...not only your soul, but the souls of others. It takes no special talent. Anyone who can't is looking "without."
It is already there.
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:45 PM
bad....
I should have said, "How can we not touch our souls?"
But, I do see you point and you are right, here....
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
bad....
I should have said, "How can we not touch our souls?"
Fear...of what we may see. Ourselves.
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 06:50 PM
Only when we are truly willing to see ourselves, can we appreciate others, imho....
wendy
02-02-2003, 06:50 PM
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
Don't we though?
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
Well we've discussed this in the past but it seems to me if there is no continuance of life after death, than what is the purpose of life? What noble purpose would there be preparing all your life to be a good person, take care of your family, enjoy success and appreciate life around you then die and than nothing?
Perhaps we have more control than you know.
Is life more valuable if you know you only have one chance?
I'm not convinced that believing you only have one chance would make you squander that one opportunity.
If you know you just go through this life once than yes life is valuable. Some choices led to a life of misery doesn't it? So, our choices are important.
My point though was does this 'valuable life' end when you die?
wendy
02-02-2003, 06:54 PM
Does it end...or does it just take a different form?
My point though was does this 'valuable life' end when you die?
For everything I've "given/shared" with you, there is a possibility that you will "give/share" that with another, therefore, if you do your job of giving, no one ever dies...ever.
I-RIGHT-I
02-02-2003, 06:55 PM
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you? What made you choose that particular name? You of course know who Jezabel was.
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you?
Oh, please, oh wise one...thou who art smarter, better looking, yada yada yada...what is the answer to life...and shit?
Does it end...or does it just take a different form?
Well I believe it continues, in a different form, but not in a circular manner but a progressive one. In other words, we don't come back as a cat or dog or another human form. We go on and it's never ending.
wendy
02-02-2003, 06:59 PM
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you? What made you choose that particular name? You of course know who Jezabel was.
Jezebel, how lucky for you...our resident expert is in the house.
I'm sure he'll be more than happy to provide the "correct" answer to your question. He's made something of a habit of enlightening those of us living in darkness.
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you? What made you choose that particular name? You of course know who Jezabel was.
::)
You should spend your time looking for and hanging onto a mate. We don't need bar room wisdom at this point thanks.
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
Pride. Plain and simple. It is nearly impossible to blame ourselves for our own shortcomings. I believe it started when we began using hyphenated surnames...it's been downhill ever since.
TROLLOP
02-02-2003, 07:06 PM
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
Don't we though?
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
What problem?
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:07 PM
Pride. Plain and simple. It is nearly impossible to blame ourselves for our own shortcomings. <snip saarcasm>
Some people have a difficult time seeing themselves as the cause of their problems.
Unfortunately, that's NOT one of my faults.
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:08 PM
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
Don't we though?
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
What problem?
Do I know you?
What problem?
<case closed> "It's everyone else's problem. I'm perfect."
I need a collective eye roll here, folks.
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
Don't we though?
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
What problem?
Sounds like Alfred E. Newman. Hmmmmm.
TROLLOP
02-02-2003, 07:11 PM
It may be that there is no God and we have no soul. It may be that we are just animated meat. It may be that all our experiences, good or bad, and all our emotions about them just disappear into meaningless oblivion when we die.
Then again...maybe not.
Sounds like Alfred E. Newman. Hmmmmm.
Like, no offense, Trollop, but why didn't you just say "Duh?"
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:12 PM
It may be that there is no God and we have no soul. It may be that we are just animated meat. It may be that all our experiences, good or bad, and all our emotions about them just disappear into meaningless oblivion when we die.
Then again...maybe not.
You mean....you don't have all the answers?
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:13 PM
"animated meat"
hmmmm
I have to admit it has a ping to it....
It may be that there is no God and we have no soul. It may be that we are just animated meat. It may be that all our experiences, good or bad, and all our emotions about them just disappear into meaningless oblivion when we die.
Then again...maybe not.
You mean....you don't have all the answers?
Answers? Hell, practically nobody has the questions, for crying out loud.
"animated meat"
hmmmm
I have to admit it has a ping to it....
I have a whole pasture full of animated meat. ;)
Answers? Hell, practically nobody has the questions, for crying out loud.
You have no idea how hilarious that was to me...coming from you!! ROFL!!
TROLLOP
02-02-2003, 07:16 PM
We spend a lot of time looking for life in the wrong places, imo, when home was here all along...something like the Wizard of Oz....
Don't we though?
People want the easy cure...they don't want to have to look at themselves as the problem.
What problem?
Do I know you?
I don't think so. I didn't realize that was a requirement to post here. Should I introduce myself to you? You first.
I'm not trying to imply my own imperfection, I was just curious how a discussion about the meaning of life became a discussion about some 'problem', and why does everyone seem to understand that?
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:17 PM
Answers? Hell, practically nobody has the questions, for crying out loud.
So, IYHO, what are the pertinent questions?
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:19 PM
Do you have a problem with the word "problem" or is there a problem with some aspect of a problem which we seem to share an understanding of and you feel excluded somehow?
What's the problem?
TROLLOP
02-02-2003, 07:19 PM
Sounds like Alfred E. Newman. Hmmmmm.
Like, no offense, Trollop, but why didn't you just say "Duh?"
Well it should be obvious to you. I got all that from reading YOUR posts.
Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
and, where are we going?
arod, they've been asking those questions for centuries, do you have the answers?
I'm not trying to imply my own imperfection, I was just curious how a discussion about the meaning of life became a discussion about some 'problem', and why does everyone seem to understand that?
Forgive our "sensitivity," Trollop. These wrinkles on our faces are road maps from the miles we've travelled together. I think this back and forth is a "reassurance" to each other that we really don't understand much about anything...except that we are overwhelmed with our own self-importance.
So, IYHO, what are the pertinent questions?
As you know very well by now, Wendy, I don't HAVE humble opinions. :)
To address your question, the pertinent questions are at least as many as there are human beings, but maybe this would be a good one for most people: why do I do things I know I shouldn't do, and say things I know I shouldn't say?
Well it should be obvious to you. I got all that from reading YOUR posts.
Then, there is your answer. :)
Jezebel
02-02-2003, 07:28 PM
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you? What made you choose that particular name? You of course know who Jezabel was.
Is there one single correct answer? I don't think I was looking for the secrets of the Universe. I was just curious about what other people have experienced.
Why did I pick Jezebel? It is my middle name.
Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
and, where are we going?
arod, they've been asking those questions for centuries, do you have the answers?
We came from God and the devil through the sin of Adam.
We're here to choose our allegiance to one or the other.
We'll go to one or the other.
Do I win the catcher's mitt? :)
Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
and, where are we going?
arod, they've been asking those questions for centuries, do you have the answers?
We came from God and the devil through the sin of Adam.
We're here to choose our allegiance to one or the other.
We'll go to one or the other.
Do I win the catcher's mitt? :)
Hmmm, pretty good. Right or left handed?
Lance
02-02-2003, 07:33 PM
That is providing you buy into that particular version of "myth". Or theory if you are so inclined.
I do not think life is that simple, myself. Its not good/bad, carrot/stick, or god/devil. There are a million shades of gray in between.
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:33 PM
We came from God and the devil through the sin of Adam.
We're here to choose our allegiance to one or the other.
We'll go to one or the other.
Do I win the catcher's mitt? :)
You believe we exist because of disobedience?
How many generations are supposed to be cursed? ;)
Persephone
02-02-2003, 07:34 PM
I thought the questions were supposed to be for agnostics. How would an agnostic choose allegiance to God or the Devil? Though I think maybe there is a choice for everyone between good and evil.
What is allegiance to one or the other?
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:35 PM
cursed till the end of time, I would imagine...
But, you knew that....
Jez...interesting topic. Not one single correct answer yet but you didn't expect one did you? What made you choose that particular name? You of course know who Jezabel was.
Is there one single correct answer? I don't think I was looking for the secrets of the Universe. I was just curious about what other people have experienced.
Why did I pick Jezebel? It is my middle name.
You’ll have to forgive these paranoid bastards, I once used the user name “Wormwood” and every whacko Christian Fundamentalist at NewsMax about pissed their pants. ::)
You believe we exist because of disobedience?
Yes.
How many generations are supposed to be cursed? ;)
As many as are content to be herded like cattle.
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:36 PM
cursed till the end of time, I would imagine...
But, you knew that....
Yes, I knew that. I was hoping his arrogance would attempt to apply logic to his answer. ;D
cursed till the end of time, I would imagine...
But, you knew that....
And He preaches "forgiveness?" I'll pass on that guilt trip.
That is providing you buy into that particular version of "myth". Or theory if you are so inclined.
I do not think life is that simple, myself. Its not good/bad, carrot/stick, or god/devil. There are a million shades of gray in between.
No, according to you it is simple; born, live, shit and than die.
Persephone
02-02-2003, 07:37 PM
That is providing you buy into that particular version of "myth". Or theory if you are so inclined.
I do not think life is that simple, myself. Its not good/bad, carrot/stick, or god/devil. There are a million shades of gray in between.
Good point. I'd think very few really choose evil. But no one is untouched by evil. And vice versa?
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:37 PM
I didn't piss over it, or was I even there at the time...but then, I am not what I would call a fundamentalist....
"wormwood"
"animated meat"
This is inspiring...
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:39 PM
As many as are content to be herded like cattle.
An ambiguous reply from Arod. What a surprise. ;)
I didn't piss over it, or was I even there at the time...but then, I am not what I would call a fundamentalist....
"wormwood"
"animated meat"
This is inspiring...
I wouldn't consider you lucy a 'Fundamentalist Christian' ... and you can thank God you're not. :)
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:42 PM
Suth...
If we are touched also by evil, from what source does the evil exist?
wendy
02-02-2003, 07:42 PM
I don't think so. I didn't realize that was a requirement to post here. Should I introduce myself to you? You first.
Did I say it was a requirement? No need to get defensive..Just a simple question. :)
I'm not trying to imply my own imperfection, I was just curious how a discussion about the meaning of life became a discussion about some 'problem', and why does everyone seem to understand that?
You've never seen a conversation "evolve"?
Persephone
02-02-2003, 07:43 PM
Suth...
If we are touched also by evil, from what source does the evil exist?
Evil is hatred or the absence of love. Evil is the things that feed hatred. Pride comes immediately to mind, followed closely by greed.
How would an agnostic choose allegiance to God or the Devil? Though I think maybe there is a choice for everyone between good and evil.
Just answered your own question, didn't you?
What is allegiance to one or the other?
One somehow tends to envision masses of people saluting Hitler, am I right? But as you implied, you strengthen your allegiance to one side or the other by the choices you make...or maybe it would be better to say the inclinations you take.
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 07:48 PM
Okay, then if evil is the absence of love, where does the love come from?
:)
TROLLOP
02-02-2003, 08:00 PM
I don't think so. I didn't realize that was a requirement to post here. Should I introduce myself to you? You first.
Did I say it was a requirement? No need to get defensive..Just a simple question. :)
I'm not trying to imply my own imperfection, I was just curious how a discussion about the meaning of life became a discussion about some 'problem', and why does everyone seem to understand that?
You've never seen a conversation "evolve"?
I guess all this resident NoPC brainpower is too far beyond me. C'est la vie. We do the best we can with what we're given/end up with. Why, I don't know. I'll just sit this one out.
Good point. I'd think very few really choose evil.
Nobody leans back in the easy chair, strokes his chin deliberately, and makes a reasoned choice for evil...but we all do things we know we shouldn't. When it's pointed out to us, we make excuses, thus defending the evil.
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 08:06 PM
Oh TROLLOP, just join in and be yourself..We are extra forks looking for the missing parts of the place setting around here....
ilovelucy
02-02-2003, 08:08 PM
good point, Arod.
Is it me or is this forum split? Is there a problem here?
wendy
02-02-2003, 08:15 PM
I guess all this resident NoPC brainpower is too far beyond me. C'est la vie. We do the best we can with what we're given/end up with. Why, I don't know. I'll just sit this one out.
Darn. We really need a sarcasm icon.
Lazarus
02-02-2003, 10:09 PM
Evil is the absence of good.
God is love and only God is good.
Apart from God, we are all evil. In communion with God, then whatever good we do, we do united with God--and in the spirit of love.
Apart from God, we cannot do that which is good--for we have departed from the spirit of love. If we do in fact do good, then it was not us doing good--but God acting through us that did good in the spirit of love.
However, if we do evil, then it was not God that did evil, but us--rejecting God--that did evil apart from the spirit of love.
Of course, those who do not know the difference between right and wrong or the difference between good and evil are exempted due to innocence.
TROLLOP
02-04-2003, 11:58 AM
This showed up in my e-mail, unsolicited and unexpected, but not unwelcome. Coincidentally, it is directly related to something I posted here a couple of days ago, but it is an answer of hope, rather than one of dispair.
If this devotional is a blessing to you, maybe you have a friend or family
member that would like to start receiving this daily word. You can forward
this to them, and they can use the following link to subscribe.
www.liveprayer.com/FreeD.html
DAILY DEVOTIONAL TUESDAY FEBRUARY 4, 2003
(2 Timothy 1:5)
***This Devotional is dedicated to Space Shuttle Columbia Commander Colonel
Rick Husband. While he will be remembered for his brave and dedicated
service to our nation in the Air Force and as the Commander of Space
Shuttle Columbia, he was also a committed Christian. Colonel Husband was
bold and unashamed about his personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and
the lives that he touched for the Lord along his journey will be his
greatest legacy.
The greatest legacy that you can leave is in the lives you touch for God.
As I have gotten older, each passing year makes me realize all the more how
brief our journey here really is. It is only natural that we think about
how we might be remembered after we are gone. I don't want to sound cold,
but the fact is, other than our family and possibly a few close friends, the
memory of our life will fade quickly. Once we are gone from this life,
there is very little left to remind people that we were even here. Some
people may be memorialized by having a building or road named after them,
others may have their memory honored by having an event named after them,
but for most there will be little evidence of this life once it is over. My
purpose today is not to discourage you, but to challenge you in regard to
how you CAN live on long after your life here is over.
I have often talked about leaving behind the temporal things of this world
when we die. How the only thing we will take from this live into eternity
is our relationship with Christ. That our works will be tested and much of
what we do in this life will be burned up as wood, hay, and stubble. The
works that will stand the test of fire are those eternal works. So it is
with our legacy, what we leave behind. We
leave behind our name, which may or may not continue. The most visible
thing we leave is our children, but they too will one day die. What we do
leave behind that will NOT pass away are those souls who will live for
eternity because we were obedient to God. Understand that only the Holy
Spirit can bring a person to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. However,
God uses human instruments to affect a person's life and bring them to that
point. Your prayers, your kind words, your acts of charity, your
unconditional love for others during your life will live on in that person
for eternity!
The point I want you to understand today is that it is never too early in
life, or too late in life to impact someone for eternity. It is after all
our purpose in this life. Our purpose is to serve and glorify God. Our
service to God comes in the service to others. Our service to others has
ETERNAL consequences. It is our greatest legacy. It is the part of us that
WILL live on for eternity. We live on long after we leave this life, in the
lives of those we touch along our journey.
I love you and care about you so much. I pray today that you will take
these words and meditate on them throughout the day. This is one of those
Devotionals that you should print out and keep with you. We all go through
those times in our life when we wonder what it is all about, if it really
matters. The answer is a resounding YES! We need to be reminded from time
to time that we are significant because God uses us in His plan and purpose
to touch other lives at every step along our journey. I am humbled each day
as so many of you share what Liveprayer.com and these Devotionals have meant
to your life. I am so appreciative to God that He has given me this
wonderful opportunity to share the love and hope that we have in Jesus
Christ with millions worldwide each day. I am clearly focused now more than
ever, that the best way I can make my life count, is in serving those the
Lord allows me to minister to along the way. It is the greatest way I can
imagine to live my life.
My challenge to you today is to make sure you leave an eternal legacy, that
you live on after your death in the lives of those the Lord allows to cross
your path. Let me also challenge you that if at this moment, you are not
100% sure that if your heart stops beating this moment, you will immediately
and forever be with Jesus, then please take a moment, pray for God to open
your heart, and read the words at this link:
www.liveprayer.com/SPlan.html . It will be the most important decision that
you will make in this life.
Colonel Husband left this life at around 9:00am EST last Saturday. God said
that his work here was finished and he is now enjoying his rewards. However
Colonel Husband leaves behind a great legacy, an eternal legacy, in those
lives that he touched for God throughout his life. THAT is the greatest
legacy he, or any of us, can leave behind!
In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller
Oh, and Jezebel, above all else, stay away from LanceALott and Yukon. :)
Now there's the best advice I've seen in some time.
buzaw
02-04-2003, 05:07 PM
Within.
Damn good answer there badnews. It's no wonder I like you, you come up with some good stuff. This is the answer.
Really?? I think it's silly to look within for the answers to life. We all've been aware with what's within us since the beginning of history n nobody's came up with even a smidget of an answer to life thataway. What've you learned, BN or Lonestar?? What comes out of each of us reflects what's within and if we translate this into the answers to life, we come up with a great big fat zero. I'd look for something supernatural and if I couldn't find anything, I'd say forget it and eat drink and be merry til I die. Thankfully the Bible has been that proven supernatural answer.
Within.
Damn good answer there badnews. It's no wonder I like you, you come up with some good stuff. This is the answer.
Really?? I think it's silly to look within for the answers to life. We all've been aware with what's within us since the beginning of history n nobody's came up with even a smidget of an answer to life thataway. What've you learned, BN or Lonestar?? What comes out of each of us reflects what's within and if we translate this into the answers to life, we come up with a great big fat zero. I'd look for something supernatural and if I couldn't find anything, I'd say forget it and eat drink and be merry til I die. Thankfully the Bible has been that proven supernatural answer.
What's the matter buzz, you don't believe man has a spirit? You don't believe we are born with the spirit of Christ in all of us, translated, a conscience? Maybe you need 'external' proof but I listen to the still small voice and that comes from within after sorting through all the junk and good stuff that I'm deluged with everyday.
Within.
Damn good answer there badnews. It's no wonder I like you, you come up with some good stuff. This is the answer.
Thankfully the Bible has been that proven supernatural answer.
Not everyone finds answers in the Bible or from your god. Some of us look elsewhere and are just as fulfilled as you are.
buzaw
02-04-2003, 05:24 PM
Okay, then if evil is the absence of love, where does the love come from?
:)
Imo, there's more to evil than the absense of love. Evil can include love. In fact evil can use all kinds of good to draw the deceived into evil itself. Satan is the inspiration and buckstopping origin of evil. He seldom ever goes it alone with evil. Take the temptations of Jesus for example. He used good scripture to tempt Jesus to do evil. Mark this in your little notebook n never forget it. All evil false doctrines are laced with enough good and truth so as to make them enticing and resonable.
lonestar...
yes, I also feel there is a voice, but we have more than one voice within us sometimes and these can be in conflict with each other...
ie there is the voice of condemnation which tells us why we are not living up to our full potential and fusses at us on a daily basis (I am experiencing this at the moment, so I feel this voice at its pesty best...)
there is a voice which wants us to take the time to relax and enjoy life and not worry, but simple be...
there is a voice which requires us to take care of daily business in order to survive, even when we would rather take the time to simply be,
and so on.... :)
A man without the spirit walks in darkness,
buzaw
02-04-2003, 05:40 PM
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
I like to refer to it as the voice within, which is our conscience. We all have a conscience and access to that voice, to make choices. I think we are born with it and it goes with us through out this life and the choices we make, make us the person we are.
Imo, it is dangerous to listen to "voices" within without an outside check on those "voices." According to the Bible, demons of Satan have power to get into the inner self of man and cause all kinds of havoc much like viruses get into our computers. Folks like Manson and Son of Satan, etc are good examples of extremes here. But there "nice" demons who come on as angels of light. This is why Biblical scripture is so important. Time has proven it a save underlying basis for truth and the prophecies attest to it's supernatural origin.
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
I like to refer to it as the voice within, which is our conscience. We all have a conscience and access to that voice, to make choices. I think we are born with it and it goes with us through out this life and the choices we make, make us the person we are.
Imo, it is dangerous to listen to "voices" within without an outside check on those "voices." According to the Bible, demons of Satan have power to get into the inner self of man and cause all kinds of havoc much like viruses get into our computers. Folks like Manson and Son of Satan, etc are good examples of extremes here. But there "nice" demons who come on as angels of light. This is why Biblical scripture is so important. Time has proven it a save underlying basis for truth and the prophecies attest to it's supernatural origin.
So who is to say that Jehovah/Yahweh isn't one of the demons you are so scared of?
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
I like to refer to it as the voice within, which is our conscience. We all have a conscience and access to that voice, to make choices. I think we are born with it and it goes with us through out this life and the choices we make, make us the person we are.
Imo, it is dangerous to listen to "voices" within without an outside check on those "voices." According to the Bible, demons of Satan have power to get into the inner self of man and cause all kinds of havoc much like viruses get into our computers. Folks like Manson and Son of Satan, etc are good examples of extremes here. But there "nice" demons who come on as angels of light. This is why Biblical scripture is so important. Time has proven it a save underlying basis for truth and the prophecies attest to it's supernatural origin.
You won't find salvation by being a puppet buzz. You've heard of discernment haven't you? Listen to the voice within you and discern if what you see, feel, touch or hear is good or evil. than use your God given gift to make a choice who you will serve.
music, art, language. technology, science--all the fabulous endeavors of man to help give life meaning....are worth a second look when searching for oneself....
imho....
Why search for something that isn't lost?
The only limitation we have is touching our own souls.
imho....
I like to refer to it as the voice within, which is our conscience. We all have a conscience and access to that voice, to make choices. I think we are born with it and it goes with us through out this life and the choices we make, make us the person we are.
Imo, it is dangerous to listen to "voices" within without an outside check on those "voices." According to the Bible, demons of Satan have power to get into the inner self of man and cause all kinds of havoc much like viruses get into our computers. Folks like Manson and Son of Satan, etc are good examples of extremes here. But there "nice" demons who come on as angels of light. This is why Biblical scripture is so important. Time has proven it a save underlying basis for truth and the prophecies attest to it's supernatural origin.
You won't find salvation by being a puppet buzz. You've heard of discernment haven't you? Listen to the voice within you and discern if what you see, feel, touch or hear is good or evil. than use your God given gift to make a choice who you will serve.
Standing up for personal responsibility over being the slave of a supernatural being. I knew there was something I truly respected about you.
buzaw
02-04-2003, 05:57 PM
[quote author=LizzieEleanor link=board=4;threadid=1220;start=90#31763
So who is to say that Jehovah/Yahweh isn't one of the demons you are so scared of?
[/quote]
Excellent point, Liz. The Bible says 1. "Prove all things and 2. Test the spirits
So to prove whether Jehovah's alleged word is indeed what it's cracked up to be, we have the fulfilled prophecies and the historical and archeological record to prove it legitimate. We also have the historical record of the workability of the teachings in it. Notice here, I didn't say the doctrines of individual sects, but the book itself.
As for testing the spirits, once one has decided to trust the Bible and the Spirit of God which we Christians believe is within us, the Spirit of God NEVER tells us anything of itself, but what God has it say. Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
The Bible says unbelievers have not the spirit of God and therefore cannot understand things of the Spirit of God, because as it puts it, "they are spiritually discerned."
Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
So if the voice quoted scripture accurately, you'd know it was of God?
Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
So if the voice quoted scripture accurately, you'd know it was of God?
What if I don't believe that those scriptures are any more divine than any other writing of man?
[quote author=LizzieEleanor link=board=4;threadid=1220;start=90#31763
Excellent point, Liz. The Bible says 1. "Prove all things and 2. Test the spirits
So to prove whether Jehovah's alleged word is indeed what it's cracked up to be, we have the fulfilled prophecies and the historical and archeological record to prove it legitimate. We also have the historical record of the workability of the teachings in it. Notice here, I didn't say the doctrines of individual sects, but the book itself.
As for testing the spirits, once one has decided to trust the Bible and the Spirit of God which we Christians believe is within us, the Spirit of God NEVER tells us anything of itself, but what God has it say. Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
The Bible says unbelievers have not the spirit of God and therefore cannot understand things of the Spirit of God, because as it puts it, "they are spiritually discerned."
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.[/quote]
.....assholes.....there is NO God.....none.........
[quote author=LizzieEleanor link=board=4;threadid=1220;start=90#31763
Excellent point, Liz. The Bible says 1. "Prove all things and 2. Test the spirits
So to prove whether Jehovah's alleged word is indeed what it's cracked up to be, we have the fulfilled prophecies and the historical and archeological record to prove it legitimate. We also have the historical record of the workability of the teachings in it. Notice here, I didn't say the doctrines of individual sects, but the book itself.
As for testing the spirits, once one has decided to trust the Bible and the Spirit of God which we Christians believe is within us, the Spirit of God NEVER tells us anything of itself, but what God has it say. Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
The Bible says unbelievers have not the spirit of God and therefore cannot understand things of the Spirit of God, because as it puts it, "they are spiritually discerned."
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
[/quote]
Thank you lonestar, but you and I both know that sentiments like that fall on deaf ears where buzzy is concerned.
tileman
02-04-2003, 06:20 PM
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
[quote author=LizzieEleanor link=board=4;threadid=1220;start=90#31763
Excellent point, Liz. The Bible says 1. "Prove all things and 2. Test the spirits
So to prove whether Jehovah's alleged word is indeed what it's cracked up to be, we have the fulfilled prophecies and the historical and archeological record to prove it legitimate. We also have the historical record of the workability of the teachings in it. Notice here, I didn't say the doctrines of individual sects, but the book itself.
As for testing the spirits, once one has decided to trust the Bible and the Spirit of God which we Christians believe is within us, the Spirit of God NEVER tells us anything of itself, but what God has it say. Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
The Bible says unbelievers have not the spirit of God and therefore cannot understand things of the Spirit of God, because as it puts it, "they are spiritually discerned."
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Thank you lonestar, but you and I both know that sentiments like that fall on deaf ears where buzzy is concerned.
[/quote]
I know but we said it didn't we? :)
[quote author=LizzieEleanor link=board=4;threadid=1220;start=90#31763
Excellent point, Liz. The Bible says 1. "Prove all things and 2. Test the spirits
So to prove whether Jehovah's alleged word is indeed what it's cracked up to be, we have the fulfilled prophecies and the historical and archeological record to prove it legitimate. We also have the historical record of the workability of the teachings in it. Notice here, I didn't say the doctrines of individual sects, but the book itself.
As for testing the spirits, once one has decided to trust the Bible and the Spirit of God which we Christians believe is within us, the Spirit of God NEVER tells us anything of itself, but what God has it say. Anytime one has a "voice" prompting something contrary to the Bible, IT IS NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD'S VOICE. That's how we who are Christians test the spirits.
The Bible says unbelievers have not the spirit of God and therefore cannot understand things of the Spirit of God, because as it puts it, "they are spiritually discerned."
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Thank you lonestar, but you and I both know that sentiments like that fall on deaf ears where buzzy is concerned.
I know but we said it didn't we? :)
[/quote]
I think we both made our points.
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
tileman
02-04-2003, 06:27 PM
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
There's a difference between 'being without sin' as Christ was and being righteous.
tileman
02-04-2003, 06:32 PM
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
There's a difference between 'being without sin' as Christ was and being righteous.
As in the former being constant and the latter being temporary?
Lazarus
02-04-2003, 06:38 PM
God gives life to all human beings.
God does not do anything evil.
So, when God gives life, that life must be innocent.
How are God's innocent unrighteous?
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
There's a difference between 'being without sin' as Christ was and being righteous.
As in the former being constant and the latter being temporary?
No persons are wholly righteous but many have the quality and type of life that by their choices they are living close to the laws and commandments of God, knowingly or not.
tileman
02-04-2003, 06:44 PM
Kiss my ass Laz we're not talking about babies and you know it..... ::)
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
There's a difference between 'being without sin' as Christ was and being righteous.
As in the former being constant and the latter being temporary?
No persons are wholly righteous but many have the quality and type of life that by their choices they are living close to the laws and commandments of God, knowingly or not.
Morality is not exclusively a Christian condition.
Lazarus
02-04-2003, 06:50 PM
Kiss my ass Laz we're not talking about babies and you know it..... ::)
Okay, if you concede that babies are righteous, then I name the blind man and his parents referred to in the Bible in John, chapter 9, about whom Jesus said (and I quote), "Neither this man nor his parents sinned...."(John 9:3).
;D
All men have the capacity to make choices buzz, for good or evil and you don't have to be a Christian to make good choices. A righteous man does not have to be a Christian to be righteous.
Name one.....
Name one? God knows who they are.
;D Then we're back to there only being one.
There's a difference between 'being without sin' as Christ was and being righteous.
As in the former being constant and the latter being temporary?
No persons are wholly righteous but many have the quality and type of life that by their choices they are living close to the laws and commandments of God, knowingly or not.
Morality is not exclusively a Christian condition.
That's right, it's not which is my point. A man may live in a totally godless society and still be a righteous man and not even know who Jesus Christ is, in other words he can be a good man and not even know a thing about the bible.
That's right, it's not which is my point. A man may live in a totally godless society and still be a righteous man and not even know who Jesus Christ is, in other words he can be a good man and not even know a thing about the bible.
And yet, still, he is damned by man.
Stupid, ain't it?
That's right, it's not which is my point. A man may live in a totally godless society and still be a righteous man and not even know who Jesus Christ is, in other words he can be a good man and not even know a thing about the bible.
And yet, still, he is damned by man.
Stupid, ain't it?
Being damned by man doesn't matter at all.
Lazarus
02-04-2003, 06:55 PM
That's right, it's not which is my point. A man may live in a totally godless society and still be a righteous man and not even know who Jesus Christ is, in other words he can be a good man and not even know a thing about the bible.
And yet, still, he is damned by man.
Stupid, ain't it?
Thosw who would condemn the innocent are either being evil or are ignorant.
That's right, it's not which is my point. A man may live in a totally godless society and still be a righteous man and not even know who Jesus Christ is, in other words he can be a good man and not even know a thing about the bible.
And yet, still, he is damned by man.
Stupid, ain't it?
Damned by man, yes and particularly by self-righteous Christians.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.