View Full Version : Iranian Students Sick of Repression
Conservinator
12-06-2004, 06:50 PM
Consider this...other Islamic nations are seeing what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. Particularly the young people.
Perhaps they are tired of living like dogs, and want thier shot at a little democracy and freedom as well.
The war in Iraq and Afghanistan may have more long term benefits than detractors would like to admit. Notice how the word "democracy" keeps popping up in the following article.
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In one of the world’s centers of Islamist lunacy, more heartening signs that people are getting sick of the repression:
Iranian Students Vent Frustration at Khatami.
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Students, once the backbone of Iran’s reformist movement, heckled and harangued President Mohammad Khatami Monday, accusing him of lacking the courage to deliver promised democratic reforms in the Islamic state.
“Khatami, what happened to your promised freedoms?,” “Khatami, shame on you,” “Students are wise, they detest Khatami,” groups shouted as the moderate cleric attempted to address some 1,500 students at Tehran University.
The speech, held to mark Iran’s annual Students Day, marked a nadir for Khatami’s relations with students who were a major force in his stunning electoral victories of 1997 and 2001.
Now nearing the end of his second and final term, which concludes in mid-2005, Khatami has lost the backing of even some of his most ardent supporters, many of whom feel he failed to stand up to hard-liners who have blocked his efforts at reform.
“Unfortunately what Khatami sees as his tolerance, on the contrary was his extreme weakness toward the opponents of democracy,”read part of a statement distributed by one pro-reform student group at the meeting.
Khatami, visibly shaken by the students’ anger, defended his record and criticized powerful hard-liners who have jailed dissidents, closed newspapers and rejected key reform bills.
“My period is going to be over soon but I do not owe anyone,” he said. “Those power-seeking fanatics who ignored the people’s demands and resisted reforms, they owe me. The ones who destroyed Iran’s image in the world, they owe me.”
http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Pictures/iranian-students-01.jpg
A female student holds an anti-Chador (Islamic veil ) poster during a speech of Iranian President Mohammad Khatami, unseen, in a ceremony to mark Student Day at Tehran university in Tehran, Iran, Monday, Dec. 6, 2004
Link (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/)
Consider this...other Islamic nations are seeing what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. Particularly the young people.
Perhaps they are tired of living like dogs, and want thier shot at a little democracy and freedom as well.
The war in Iraq and Afghanistan may have more long term benefits than detractors would like to admit. Notice how the word "democracy" keeps popping up in the following article.
The pro-democracy movement in Iran has actually been going on for quite sometime and predates anything we have been doing in Iraq by several years. President Khatami was at first embraced and elected by the students because of his promised reforms. He has however proven in the last six years that he is ineffective in the face of the conservative Ruling council. It is good to see this kind of movement in Iran, but it would be more accurate to say that this is happening despite what we are doing in Iraq rather than because of it.
Whiskey4bfast
12-07-2004, 08:27 AM
The pro-democracy movement in Iran has actually been going on for quite sometime and predates anything we have been doing in Iraq by several years. President Khatami was at first embraced and elected by the students because of his promised reforms. He has however proven in the last six years that he is ineffective in the face of the conservative Ruling council. It is good to see this kind of movement in Iran, but it would be more accurate to say that this is happening despite what we are doing in Iraq rather than because of it.
Then they need to get off their asses and have their own "insurgency".
Much easier to "just blame us!" for whatever WE do!
LanceALott
12-07-2004, 11:08 AM
Then they need to get off their asses and have their own "insurgency".
Much easier to "just blame us!" for whatever WE do!
Not only easier, but also true.
the bib
12-07-2004, 11:14 AM
As with most societies historically, there is a pecking order of sorts.
Iranians are not Arabs and are very proud of the fact that they are Caucasian and are quick to explain the difference to outsiders.
I find this amusing and curious. They DO distance themselves from the other Moslems.
As with most societies historically, there is a pecking order of sorts.
Iranians are not Arabs and are very proud of the fact that they are Caucasian and are quick to explain the difference to outsiders.
I find this amusing and curious. They DO distance themselves from the other Moslems.
I have never heard anyone from iran describe themselves as caucasian, they are however very proud of their Persian heritage.
Conservinator
12-07-2004, 04:04 PM
JAFO:
The pro-democracy movement in Iran has actually been going on for quite sometime and predates anything we have been doing in Iraq by several years...It is good to see this kind of movement in Iran, but it would be more accurate to say that this is happening despite what we are doing in Iraq rather than because of it.
Yes I was aware of that. I think that the issue is being pushed more now, however, because of what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
If the Iranians succeed in bringing about major democratic reforms in the near future, you don't think that anything we (the U.S.) did will have anything to do with it at all?
JAFO:Yes I was aware of that. I think that the issue is being pushed more now, however, because of what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
According to most of the news that Iranians receive Iraq and Afghanistan are both very dangerous places where society is falling into chaos. Afghanistan, although they have had a successful election is portrayed and is in fact a country that is largely controlled by the warlords. Iraq with its multitudes of terrorist attacks on a daily basis would appear to be in much worse shape than Afghanistan. Whether these stories are true or not is immaterial, it is the image that counts.
If the Iranians succeed in bringing about major democratic reforms in the near future, you don't think that anything we (the U.S.) did will have anything to do with it at all?
If the Iranians succeed with major democratic reforms it will be in spite of rather than because of anything we have done. This is not an anti US statement it is merely a statement of the facts as they exist in the ME today.
I-RIGHT-I
12-08-2004, 03:16 PM
. If the Iranians succeed with major democratic reforms it will be in spite of rather than because of anything we have done. This is not an anti US statement it is merely a statement of the facts as they exist in the ME today.
Words fail.
Words fail.
The only reason your words fail is because you don't have what it takes to directly refute what I am saying. We may wish or intend to be the bringers of Democracy, but the fact remains that we have hurt our own goals in the actions we took in Iraq. Afghanistan is a different story, but for the Iranians and others in the ME what is happening in Iraq is much more important, and they don't see the situation there the way you do.
I-RIGHT-I
12-08-2004, 03:38 PM
The only reason your words fail is because you don't have what it takes to directly refute what I am saying. We may wish or intend to be the bringers of Democracy, but the fact remains that we have hurt our own goals in the actions we took in Iraq. Afghanistan is a different story, but for the Iranians and others in the ME what is happening in Iraq is much more important, and they don't see the situation there the way you do.
I've learned that spending time proving idiots like you wrong is time wasted.
The face of the entire Middle East is changing thanks to W. If you don't think that the fact that the most powerful nation on earth is sitting in their backyard makes a difference you're too stupid to talk to.
Palestinians, Israel Back Peace Plan (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004120713140002904531&dt=20041207131 400&w=RTR&coview=)
Palestinians and Israelis have agreed in principle to proposals aiming to end their conflict, Egypt's official news agency MENA said on Tuesday.
Quoting unidentified high-level sources, it said the steps, including an Israeli-Palestinian cease-fire, had the support of both the United States and the European Union.
There was no immediate official comment from Israel, the Palestinians or from Egypt which has tried to play the role of mediator in previous efforts to ease Israeli-Palestinian violence.
"High-level sources confirmed an important understanding -- reaching the point of an agreement in principle -- has been completed between Egypt, Israel, the Palestinians and several active international parties, America and Europe, regarding a comprehensive settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian struggle," MENA said.
Syria: PA team meets terror chiefs (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1102220768850)
A Palestinian authority delegation, led by PLO Secretary General Abu Mazen on Tuesday met with the leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Popular Front – General Command in Damascus.
The Palestinian team was also due to hold talks with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal. The delegation is expected to arrive in Beirut on Tuesday for similar talks with Lebanese leaders and representatives of Palestinian groups in Lebanon.
PA minister: Barghouti will drop candidancy (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1102432932221)
Palestinian Authority Minister of State Kadoura Fares said on Tuesday that jailed Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti may abandon his plan to run in the January 9 lection for the presidency of the PA.
MK Talab al-Sana, who visited Barghouti in prison, confirmed that Barghouti was considering dropping his candidacy in order to prevent a split in Fatah, which unanimously chose PLO chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) as its candidate.
Combating Terrorism and Extremism in Saudi Arabia (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=55687&d=7&m=12&y=2004)
The attack on the US Consulate in Jeddah yesterday must surely be deplored by all rational men and women — those who support American policies as well as those who do not. A small minority of militants and extremists must not be allowed to carry out barbarities while sheltering under the banner of Islam. The welfare of the Kingdom’s guests is a religious duty of the people and leaders of Saudi Arabia. In Islam, these people are known as Al-Mustamanun. The term refers to non-Muslims who are living in Muslim lands or those who come to Muslim lands for work. Implicit in the term is the fact that Muslim leaders and people have guaranteed these people the security that is the right of each human being wherever he is and to whichever religious group he may belong.
reisei
12-08-2004, 04:57 PM
If you don't think that the fact that the most powerful nation on earth is sitting in their backyard makes a difference you're too stupid to talk to.
Probably the most immediate effect vis-a-vis Iran has been to strengthen the hand of the hard-liners there, at the expense of the moderate elements within the government. Which is a fairly predictable result of our actions.
I-RIGHT-I
12-08-2004, 06:43 PM
Probably the most immediate effect vis-a-vis Iran has been to strengthen the hand of the hard-liners there, at the expense of the moderate elements within the government. Which is a fairly predictable result of our actions.
As usual you are wrong. The "moderate elements" and the students see our arrival as an opportunity to push THEIR agenda. Please notice that there is now open revolt against the Mullah's. That is the predictable response to our actions and it began during the first Gulf War.
Get ready, there will be a devastating attack on Iran in the next 6 months if not sooner. There's nothing you or anyone else can do about it.
I've learned that spending time proving idiots like you wrong is time wasted.
The face of the entire Middle East is changing thanks to W. If you don't think that the fact that the most powerful nation on earth is sitting in their backyard makes a difference you're too stupid to talk to.
Palestinians, Israel Back Peace Plan (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004120713140002904531&dt=20041207131 400&w=RTR&coview=)
Palestinians and Israelis have agreed in principle to proposals aiming to end their conflict, Egypt's official news agency MENA said on Tuesday.
How many times in the last twenty years have we had headlines where the Pals and the Israelis have "agreed in principal" to some new peace proposal? The proof is in the doing and so far nothing has been done. You may want to put a hold on the mutual backslapping and high fiving until something actually happens.
Syria: PA team meets terror chiefs (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1102220768850)
A Palestinian authority delegation, led by PLO Secretary General Abu Mazen on Tuesday met with the leaders of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Popular Front – General Command in Damascus.
The Palestinian team was also due to hold talks with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal. The delegation is expected to arrive in Beirut on Tuesday for similar talks with Lebanese leaders and representatives of Palestinian groups in Lebanon.
MORE TALKS! That's something that has never happened before, oh wait, it is something that has been doen before.javascript:replaceText('%20::)')
The attack on the US Consulate in Jeddah yesterday must surely be deplored by all rational men and women — those who support American policies as well as those who do not. A small minority of militants and extremists must not be allowed to carry out barbarities while sheltering under the banner of Islam. The welfare of the Kingdom’s guests is a religious duty of the people and leaders of Saudi Arabia. In Islam, these people are known as Al-Mustamanun. The term refers to non-Muslims who are living in Muslim lands or those who come to Muslim lands for work. Implicit in the term is the fact that Muslim leaders and people have guaranteed these people the security that is the right of each human being wherever he is and to whichever religious group he may belong.
Wow a Saudi Arabian newspaper condemning an act of terrorism ANOTHER FIRST! Oh wait I guess that isn't another frist after all ::)
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