Us Soldier Shoots Dying Man [Archive]

View Full Version : Us Soldier Shoots Dying Man

Annie04

11-15-2004, 05:11 PM

An Insurgent hiding in a mask was found by US soldiers and an NBC camera. The man was lying on the ground already injured and left by US soldiers the day before. The soldier approached the man lying down with no weapons nearby. He shot the man in the head and killed him, all in front of the NBC Embedded reporter and camera. You will be hearing more about this story.

The soldier has been removed from duty as of this date. I don't have a link, I saw it on our evening news. I'm sure NBC has a headline somewhere.

wendy

11-15-2004, 05:12 PM

I would caution people not to draw any conclusions from the media reports.

There is a lot we don't know about this particular case....and a lot we do know about the behavior of the terrorists...such as their fondness for using injured insurgents as IEDs.

I-RIGHT-I

11-15-2004, 05:16 PM

That's too bad. The soldier should have shot the NBC guy's too. Now he's going to have to pay for doing the right thing.

ilovelucy

11-15-2004, 05:17 PM

What's a IED?

WCP

11-15-2004, 05:17 PM

The soldier approached the man lying down with no weapons nearby. He shot the man in the head and killed him, all in front of the NBC Embedded reporter and camera.

Oh, kewwwwwwwwwwwwwl! Betcha that was ugly.

WCP

11-15-2004, 05:18 PM

What's a IED?

Fancy schmancy word for a bomb. Improvised Explosive Device. ::)

wendy

11-15-2004, 05:19 PM

What's a IED?

Improvised expolosive device.

They wire up the wounded so they can take out our guys when they try and give medical assistance.

Whiskey4bfast

11-15-2004, 05:19 PM

What's a IED?
Improvised Explosive Device.

As opposed to an IUD....

backlash

11-15-2004, 05:20 PM

It wouldn't be the first time a leftist appeasing anti-war 'journalist' slanted a story. Another dead terrorist. Good.

Bassman

11-15-2004, 05:21 PM

Oh, kewwwwwwwwwwwwwl! Betcha that was ugly.

They didn't show it,but they did run the audio....
BRRRRAPPPPPP BRAPPPPPPPPPP
Fuck 'em.The Marines were taking fire from the same mosque moments before.What are they supposed to do?Take a fucking poll to figure out what actions to take?
Plus,the cockroaches are now booby-trapping their dead comrades.

WCP

11-15-2004, 05:24 PM

They didn't show it,but they did run the audio....
BRRRRAPPPPPP BRAPPPPPPPPPP
Fuck 'em.The Marines were taking fire from the same mosque moments before.What are they supposed to do?Take a fucking poll to figure out what actions to take?
Plus,the cockroaches are now booby-trapping their dead comrades.

Yup. Reminds me of Full Metal Jacket when they did the sapper in the head. "Oh, man, you're gonna get the Congessional Medal of UGLY!!"

wendy

11-15-2004, 05:25 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10189829.htm?1c

WCP

11-15-2004, 05:28 PM

Send that video to Al-fucking-jizzeeerah and let them put that sumbitch all over the net and let 'em know we're really, really, really, REALLY there to kill your towel-headed asses.

WCP

11-15-2004, 06:24 PM

wendy

11-15-2004, 06:44 PM

At the same time the incident was taking place in the mosque, a U.S. Marine was killed and five others were wounded when the booby-trapped body of a dead insurgent exploded.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6496898/

You know Holly is going to have a shit fit over this one.

But Miller added: “Enemy combatants — in this case, insurgents — who don’t pose a threat would not be considered a hostile.”

Terrorists don't fight by the "rules of war". As long as they turn their dead and wounded into bombs, they should all be treated as hostiles.

Larry_Oldtimer

11-15-2004, 06:59 PM

If they don't have a white flag in their hand, and move . . . shoot would be my policy.

Annie04

11-15-2004, 08:50 PM

Yeah the story made me mad, why are these kinds of reports getting prime time? It's almost like they couldn't wait to broadcast it. They really dramatized it too...the "this may be graphic" warning, don't mind if we show you while you may be eating your dinner, pass the catsup.

Jethro Tull

11-16-2004, 01:08 AM

SamHill

11-16-2004, 04:35 AM

The day before, a soldier in this same unit was killed by just such a booby-trapped wounded man in another mosque. Who's kidding who, here?

These illegal combatants {to deserve Geneva Convention treatment, a combatant MUST be in uniform} are using their mosques for fortresses and depots for munitions. Peaceful Islam . . .

If this man is charged, President Bush should immediately issue him a pardon.

Obviously, a young soldier serving in Iraq, who just the day before, saw one of his own killed by an Iraqi, who everyone thought was dead, and who pulled the pin on a granade in a final act of Jihad, might have a different perspective on what constitutes a "non-combatant," than Tom Brokaw, who sits in a New York T.V. studio.

I know, for a fact certain, that were I in the position of that soldier; I would never assume anything about a downed Muslim shitbird, until I had personally popped his head.

Annie04

11-16-2004, 04:45 AM

They showed it again this morning on CNN. I don't think this is the end of it. I agree I think this soldier had every right to shoot the terrorist. Let's not forget this is a terrorist. I only wish they didn't have cameras on them that only tell have the story.

sinceabout

11-16-2004, 06:18 AM

I heard on the news this morning that the Marine had been shot in the face the day before. It's a little ridiculous to expect young men under attack from hostiles who store their weapons in their churches...then wail when we shoot up those churches, who booby-trap their wounded...then expect us to treat their wounded with kid gloves, to act like Mary Poppins in that hell hole.

polaris

11-16-2004, 06:25 AM

Tigerphoenix

11-16-2004, 07:50 AM

Oh you know the media will make a big deal about it. The will want everyone to make an example of the guy. But somehow I don't think most americans will see it that way. Just look at all the replies to this tread. I am in total agreance. He did what anyone would do in that situation. For all they know that marine saved the news crew's lives. Betcha they didn't even take the time to look and see what he had hidden under his cloths.

jeny

11-16-2004, 08:11 AM

WCP

11-16-2004, 08:11 AM

jeny

11-16-2004, 08:12 AM

Why don't they call them terrorists?

WCP

11-16-2004, 08:18 AM

Why are we allowing cameras to follow the troops around again? Dumbest mistake we ever made. People have this romantisized hollywood version of war bumping around their heads and the reality of war isn't nearly as entertaining as they thought it would be. ::) Are we supposed to pretend that the wounded insurgant wasn't shooting at these very same men just minutes earlier? Ridiculous. The next bullets should be reserved for the next GD camera man that gives aid and comfort to the enemy. ::)

My understanding of the embedded camera crews is to prove to the Arab world that we're not blowing up mosques and killing civilians, but instead, the "insurgents" are and trying to blame it on us. I hear tell that it's a smart move. I think it's unwise to allow the camera crews to determine what film gets out on their own.

LanceALott

11-16-2004, 08:30 AM

What's the big deal?

The US already stepped outside all laws, international and US, when we attacked Iraq to steal their oil under the excuse of WMD.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 08:37 AM

Heh heh. CNN just reported that if the "insurgents" get wind of the killing that they will in the future continue to fight to the death rather than surrender.

Clue. That's what our forces want.

In fact, isn't that the rules of engagement that the "insurgents" let us know would happen? What does anyone expect?

"We're all fighting to the death...oh...with the exception of Akmed over there." ::)
;D ;D

U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade
By Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.

Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.

"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.

"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."

The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.

A pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it, killing 10 militants and wounding the five. Sites said the wounded had been left for others to pick up.

A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be close to death, Sites said.

He said a Marine noticed one prisoner was still breathing.

A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's fucking faking he's dead."

"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head," Sites said.

NBC said the Marine, who had reportedly been shot in the face himself the previous day, said immediately after the shooting: "Well, he's dead now."

THOROUGH PROBE PROMISED

The Marine commander in Falluja, Lieutenant General John Sattler, said his men followed the law of conflict and held themselves to a high standard of accountability.

"The facts of this case will be thoroughly pursued to make an informed decision and to protect the rights of all persons involved," he said.

Marines have repeatedly described the rebels they fought against in Falluja as ruthless fighters who didn't play by the rules. They say the investigation is politically motivated.

"It's all political. This Marine has been under attack for days. It has nothing to do with what he did," said Corporal Keith Hoy, 23.

Rights group Amnesty International said on Monday both sides in the Falluja fighting had broken the rules of war governing the protection of civilians and wounded combatants.

Gunnery Sergeant Christopher Garza, 30, favored an investigation but like other Marines said the Pentagon should weigh its decision carefully.

"He should have captured him. Maybe the insurgent had some valuable information. There may have been mitigating circumstances. Maybe his two buddies died in Falluja," he said.

Sites said: "I have witnessed the Marines behaving as a disciplined and professional force throughout this offensive. In this particular case, it certainly was a confusing situation to say the least."

The U.S. military has been embarrassed by scandals in Iraq, most prominently the Abu Ghraib affair in which at least eight U.S. soldiers have been tried or face courts-martial over the abuse of prisoners at the jail outside Baghdad.

There have also been several cases in which soldiers have been charged with wrongfully killing Iraqis during operations

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 08:41 AM

Remember "Chu Hoi" in Vietnam? (open arms - something like that)

We all used to say it really meant "shoot me".........

jAfO

11-16-2004, 08:42 AM

A marine was wounded earlier that day by a booby-trapped body. The soldier who fired the shot was wounded the previous day.

Under the circumstances, it would be an utter disgrace to take any serious disciplinary action against this marine. With such a ruthless and conscienceless enemy to fight, shoot first and ask questions later is the rule.

Sounds cruel, but as the old Chinese dictum goes, the enemy sets the rules of combat.

In this case we don't have a choice, we are going to have to punish this particular soldier to the fullest extent possible. Not because the killing of this particular insurgent was heinous in the eyes of Americans, but because of our relations with the Iraqi people.

I'm like you, I don't personally give a rats ass about the insurgent/terrorist that was killed. If it would save the life of even one American I would prefer that they kill all of them on the spot. Unfortunately we have to worry about how the Iraqis feel about this because without their backing we will lose in Iraq no matter how many insurgents we kill. This is like Abu Ghraib, from our perspective it doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but to the Iraqis it will be a very big deal and you can bet that our enemies will use it to their best advantage. We have to make sure that the perception of the incident makes us look like the good guys to the Iraqi people. That is why it is very important that the Iraqis see that we are punishing the people who were involved in Abu Ghraib and why it is important that they see us punish this soldier.

The Chinese proverb you refer to was written in a time before mass media, and unfortunately the reality of this situation is that we can't fight this war in as dirty a fashion as the insurgents/terrorists can. When we went to Iraq we went in wearing the big white hats and that means that in order to keep our integrity in this situation we have to be better than our enemies. It may not be fair but if the hero in a Western back shoots the bad guy he is no longer the hero. The bad guy can on the other hand do anything he pleases, after all he's the bad guy.

jAfO

11-16-2004, 08:46 AM

;D ;D

U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade
By Michael Georgy

FALLUJA, Iraq (Reuters) - U.S. Marines rallied round a comrade under investigation for killing a wounded Iraqi during the offensive in Falluja, saying he was probably under combat stress in unpredictable, hair-trigger circumstances.

Your opinion, my opinion, and the opinions of the Marines doesn't mean jack squat in this situation. The only opinion that matters is the opinions of the Iraqi people and I'm afraid their opoinion is going to be very negative.

WCP

11-16-2004, 08:47 AM

In this case we don't have a choice, we are going to have to punish this particular soldier to the fullest extent possible.

You idiot. You do NOT punish a Marine for killing anyone or thing. That's what the fuck they are there for. That's what they've been trained for since the day of Tunn Tavern. This Marine should get a confirmed kill and a promotion. If he's punished at all, it will be a blow to the esprit de Corps. It will send a message to the Marines to not be Marines.

You don't know what you're talking about.

WCP

11-16-2004, 08:48 AM

I'm afraid...

Obviously. ::)

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 08:56 AM

Obviously. ::)
;D ;D ;D

The press is already all over this one.

Pisses me off.

Wouldn't be "no thang" with the lamestream media though, had it been done by a John Kerry (remember the little wounded dink who had fired the RPG, dropped it, limped off, only to be run down by Kerry and executed behind that hooch.

I would have not been bothered by either incident but you guys on the left do your own "after actions" depending upon "whose Ox is Gored"......... >:(

WCP

11-16-2004, 09:01 AM

;D ;D ;D

The press is already all over this one.

Pisses me off.

Wouldn't be "no thang" with the lamestream media though, had it been done by a John Kerry (remember the little wounded dink who had fired the RPG, dropped it, limped off, only to be run down by Kerry and executed behind that hooch.

I would have not been bothered by either incident but you guys on the left do your own "after actions" depending upon "whose Ox is Gored"......... >:(

I think it would be fairly safe to assume that after 7 months of telling the dipshits to get out of town and finally they send in a couple of units of Marines (and the Army, too :-* ) that it could probably be inferred that anyone staying behind that their ass is most likely grass.

I don't remember hearing that many stories about the Marines being used to "capture" the enemy. They are there to eliminate the enemy...whatever it takes.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 09:04 AM

I think it would be fairly safe to assume that after 7 months of telling the dipshits to get out of town and finally they send in a couple of units of Marines (and the Army, too :-* ) that it could probably be inferred that anyone staying behind that their ass is most likely grass.

I don't remember hearing that many stories about the Marines being used to "capture" the enemy. They are there to eliminate the enemy...whatever it takes.
;D Who says you can't teach old (Devil) Dogs new tricks? ;D

jAfO

11-16-2004, 09:04 AM

You idiot. You do NOT punish a Marine for killing anyone or thing. That's what the fuck they are there for. That's what they've been trained for since the day of Tunn Tavern. This Marine should get a confirmed kill and a promotion. If he's punished at all, it will be a blow to the esprit de Corps. It will send a message to the Marines to not be Marines.

You don't know what you're talking about.

BN, you really need to stick to fart jokes and pulling your pud, because you don't know shit about anything else. The Marines may be there to kill everyone and everything, but as a Nation that is not our goal. We, as a nation are in Iraq at this point to try and develop a Democracy in that country. In order to make this whole thing worth it for us we have to try and have that democracy be as friendly towards us as possible. This incident puts that in jeopardy, the incident on its own may not be enough to ruin the whole thing, but these things have a tendency to add up. We have to save the situation in the best way we can and that way will probably include punishing this Marine.

Maybe in the future they'll be smart enough to realize that embedded cameramen can be a bad Idea, but its to late for that now.

WCP

11-16-2004, 09:09 AM

BN, you really need to stick to fart jokes and pulling your pud, because you don't know shit about anything else. The Marines may be there to kill everyone and everything, but as a Nation that is not our goal. We, as a nation are in Iraq at this point to try and develop a Democracy in that country. In order to make this whole thing worth it for us we have to try and have that democracy be as friendly towards us as possible. This incident puts that in jeopardy, the incident on its own may not be enough to ruin the whole thing, but these things have a tendency to add up. We have to save the situation in the best way we can and that way will probably include punishing this Marine.

Maybe in the future they'll be smart enough to realize that embedded cameramen can be a bad Idea, but its to late for that now.

Yeah, okay, General jAfO. ::)

You tell us how to win this war...oh, wait. That's right. We're not even supposed to be there according to you. I'm sure you are welcome to your opinion as to what our "goal" is over there. Doesn't mean that that is our goal, however.

I think embedded cameramen are a good idea. I don't think embedded cameramen from civilian agencies are, though.

I-RIGHT-I

11-16-2004, 09:16 AM

Your opinion, my opinion, and the opinions of the Marines doesn't mean jack squat in this situation. The only opinion that matters is the opinions of the Iraqi people and I'm afraid their opoinion is going to be very negative.

I'm willing to bet the Iraqi majority think we should have stuck a hot poker up his ass before we shot him. I could be wrong but I doubt it. Do we even know if the guy was an Iraqi? We know he was a Sunni and we know the Shia majority hate the Sunni's. There ya go.

The only people we're appeasing by playing cuddly with the Ba'athist's and the Sunni mercenaries are our own Leftists and our enemies in the UN. As soon as we get hit again here in the USA that's all going to stop. So will the stupid mouths of losers like you. If you know what's good for you that is.

lgllady

11-16-2004, 09:35 AM

WCP

11-16-2004, 09:37 AM

I hope that after the investigation the marine is released. He had returned to duty after being wounded already.

The libeals would turn the marines into the LAPD, facing off against armed terrorists with rubber bullets and tasers.

If it was John Fucking Kerry, he would have gotten a Silver Star (with a cluster). ::)

Oh, yeah...and 15 Purple Hearts.

LanceALott

11-16-2004, 09:39 AM

I think embedded cameramen are a good idea. I don't think embedded cameramen from civilian agencies are, though.

Sgt. Ron Haeberle was a US Army photographer. -- He was not a civilian.

It was his pictures of the massacre at My Lai that brought the war crimes to the attention of the People of the USA and of the world.

Lazarus

11-16-2004, 09:42 AM

I would simply leave it up to the American Military authorities to investigate and make a determination of the right course of action from here.

Otherwise, I have no opinion about it.

WCP

11-16-2004, 09:43 AM

Sgt. Ron Haeberle was a US Army photographer. -- He was not a civilian.

It was his pictures of the massacre at My Lai that brought the war crimes to the attention of the People of the USA and of the world.

Oh, good Lord. Here we go again with the Vietnam flashbacks. ::)

You'd think you were there and personally traumatized by it.

Maybe you were there at 30,000 feet. What do I know? It's pretty obvious what you don't.

LanceALott

11-16-2004, 09:47 AM

Oh, good Lord. Here we go again with the Vietnam flashbacks. ::)

You'd think you were there and personally traumatized by it.

Maybe you were there at 30,000 feet. What do I know? It's pretty obvious what you don't.

You were the one who said we needed military photographers (camera men).

I was just reminding you of history, where that was not a solution.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 10:01 AM

I hope that after the investigation the marine is released. He had returned to duty after being wounded already.

The libeals would turn the marines into the LAPD, facing off against armed terrorists with rubber bullets and tasers.

I love it! LTL (Less Than Lethal) weaponry for the "Insurgents".....

Soon you'll have Marines "standing down" like LAPD did during the RKR's (Rodney King Riots) 'cause they're too pissed off and confused about their mission to fight.

Wait....... "Mairnes too pissed off to fight?"

Doubt it! ;D

WCP

11-16-2004, 10:03 AM

I've seen the video about ten times now.

I would have done the exact same thing. I don't understand the fuss.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 10:06 AM

I've seen the video about ten times now.

I would have done the exact same thing. I don't understand the fuss.
Oh....

I think you do....

Remember Abu Gharib?

The Libs and their Media minions will play this for all its worth.. >:( >:(

WCP

11-16-2004, 10:09 AM

Oh....

I think you do....

Remember Abu Gharib?

The Libs and their Media minions will play this for all its worth.. >:( >:(

Abu Ghraib was different. They were detainees.

This guy was an obvious terrorist to me. He looked like he was booby trapped and was waiting for the Marines to get close enough to him before he splattered himself all over the inside of the mosque.

That Marine is a hero. He saved his squad.

Bassman

11-16-2004, 10:11 AM

A demonstration of the mindset of the poor forlorn little waifs shot dead in that mosque....
http://www.september11news.com/AATower2ExplodeGettyImages.jpg
If they could somehow rig a dead comrade's body with a device that could kill us ALL...they'd do it.

I hope the leftie pinheads continue with their milquetoast mewling about it.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 10:16 AM

Abu Ghraib was different. They were detainees.I know. But I don't think the lemmings the media will equate this to do...

This guy was an obvious terrorist to me. He looked like he was booby trapped and was waiting for the Marines to get close enough to him before he splattered himself all over the inside of the mosque.
Most likely. In any case, you can't wait until he depresses the detonator to find out. ::)
That Marine is a hero. He saved his squad.
No argument there! :bounce:

truelies

11-16-2004, 10:27 AM

BTW folks Kerry got a Silver Star for a very similar claimed action in Vietnam. If Bush & his Sec Def alone thia American soldier to be railroaded as they did those prison guards pre-election..............well there is a place in the lower circles of Hell for Betrayers, Right?

jAfO

11-16-2004, 11:02 AM

Oh....

I think you do....

Remember Abu Gharib?

The Libs and their Media minions will play this for all its worth.. >:( >:(

It isn't even the libs and the media of this country you have to worry about, its the opinions of the Iraqis that counts here. Just like Abu Ghraib this is another black eye for us. Too many more of these and we can kiss our chances of a good outcome in Iraq goodbye forever.

WCP

11-16-2004, 11:06 AM

Does anyone here really want a "good outcome" in Iraq? Let me see a show of hands.

<crickets>

Kill everyone of the mother fuckers.

WCP

11-16-2004, 11:16 AM

Does anyone really care whether there is a "good outcome" in Iraq or are we just being P.C. about all of this? Do we want to make Iraq into a tourist resort? No? How about inviting them to do a little trading of products with us, you know, computers, televisions, technological things? Oh, that's right. They don't have anything like that.

Well, gosh-aroonies...what does the Middle East have that we want? <grinding of gears working in head> <light bulb!!!>

OIL!!!

Are our new-found friends in the Middle East willing to sell it to us at a reasonable price?

Uh...a big NEGATORY on that last transmission, good buddy.

Take it from them and if they get in the way, accuse them of being terrorists and kill them.

Oh, yeah. That's what we're doing. 8)

Never mind.

BRB...gotta go and fill up the tank, which, btw, the price just dropped below $50 per barrel and if we were paying for what it was worth, we'd be paying $.25 cents per gallon.

Fucking goat herders.

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 11:20 AM

Does anyone here really want a "good outcome" in Iraq? Let me see a show of hands.

<crickets>

Kill everyone of the mother fuckers.
and the camel they rode in on :cwm23:

WCP

11-16-2004, 11:26 AM

The sooner we step back and look at the grim reality of war and stop apologizing for when, where and how we blow away the enemy, the sooner this crap will be over.

What a bunch of pansies some of us are.

The Dems' heads have just GOT to be spinning with all the shit happening in the news lately. They're so much into a confused cluster fuck, they don't even have time to consider suicide.

Observer

11-16-2004, 11:32 AM

There are issues to be considered here other than whether capping that guy was a righteous shoot.

JaFO, you may not know Arabs as well as you think. There is a huge difference between humiliating a prisoner and finishing off a wounded enemy in Arab tradition. Unless we make a big deal out of it, the local populace probably will not see it as much of an issue.

A more important question to be asked is why these wounded insurgents were simply left in place and not taken into custody and given medical care. There ARE times when a follow on unit may have to assume control of prisoners from a unit that is continuing the advance, however, these 5 wounded insurgents should have been at least tagged and marked as having been checked for weapons, not simply left behind for another unit to have to figure out.

At worst, we have a violation of the UCMJ. At best, we have some sloppy work by both units involved.

the bib

11-16-2004, 11:34 AM

I'm still of the strong conviction that any combatant not fighting under a state flag or in uniform, any combatant who fights under the title of "terrorist" is not entitled to Geneva Convention rules AT ALL.

This bull shit of our guys having to fight with one hand behind their backs to bow at the altar of faux gentility/civility is bogus, bull shit.

BN has it precisely right. Marines KILL and do what they must to saty alive and keep their comrades alive.. THAT"S their primary jobs, their WHOLE job description. NO F'N apology.

You don;t want to die? STAY THE F OUT OF THEIR WAY.

the bib

11-16-2004, 11:35 AM

Whiskey4bfast

11-16-2004, 11:45 AM

There are issues to be considered here other than whether capping that guy was a righteous shoot.

JaFO, you may not know Arabs as well as you think. <oh boy>There is a huge difference between humiliating a prisoner and finishing off a wounded enemy in Arab tradition. Sawing his friggin head off?Unless we make a big deal out of it, the local populace probably will not see it as much of an issue.Surely you jest. Our esteemed media will make as much out of it as they can. Our military will Art 32 the Marine and there will be a proceeding. You know that...

A more important question to be asked is why these wounded insurgents were simply left in place and not taken into custody and given medical care. There ARE times when a follow on unit may have to assume control of prisoners from a unit that is continuing the advance, however, these 5 wounded insurgents should have been at least tagged and marked as having been checked for weapons, not simply left behind for another unit to have to figure out.
The tape I heard made it sound like the tanks had gone through, blasted the shit out of things and these guys were moppin' up...... then the guy moved.
At worst, we have a violation of the UCMJ. At best, we have some sloppy work by both units involved.
Not convinced it was "sloppy work" myself. War itself is "sloppy". But, Ollie North seems to agree with you on this point. Maybe I'm being too forgiving on the Marine(s)......

Don't think so though........ ???

WCP

11-16-2004, 11:53 AM

The tape I heard made it sound like the tanks had gone through, blasted the shit out of things and these guys were moppin' up...... then the guy moved.

The tape I heard was that the tanks had just recently (matter of minutes) fired on the area where the Marines were and that they had almost come under fire by our own tanks, and then the tanks ordered the Marines into that mosque.

As for the humanitarian efforts (boo hoo) of not providing medical treatment for those wounded insurgents, that's pretty bad 24 hours having gone by. I would suggest that the troops were under fire and, honestly, taking care of their wounded while under fire by their bros wasn't really way up on the list of things to do.

I-RIGHT-I

11-16-2004, 12:19 PM

It isn't even the libs and the media of this country you have to worry about, its the opinions of the Iraqis that counts here. Just like Abu Ghraib this is another black eye for us. Too many more of these and we can kiss our chances of a good outcome in Iraq goodbye forever.

Bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about.

"Iraqis here in the south were shocked to hear of these demands and sectarian tensions are on the rise. It scares me to see the reaction of people around me whenever Fallujah is mentioned. The director of a primary health care clinic was remarking the other day that "Fallujah should be burnt upon its residents and then razed to the ground. They are the sons of Mu'awiya, may Allah curse them all.""

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

WCP

11-16-2004, 12:32 PM

MU'AWIYA, B. ABI SUFYAN (c. 602-680)

Mu'awiya was the founder of the Ummayyad dynasty, and reigned as Caliph from 661-680 A.D..

Mu'awiya was the son of Abu Sufyan, the leader of the Abd Shams clan. Most of the members of this clan rejected Muhammad until the conquest of Mecca in 630. Mu'awiya and his father came to Islam through gifts. Early after his conversion, Mu'awiya worked as one of Muhammad's scribes.

During the reign of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, Mu'awiya fought against the Byzantines in Syria. Caliph 'Umar appointed Mu'awiya Governor of Damascus. 'Uthman gave him control of Syria and north-western Iraq. Mu'awiya had a strong army which he used effectively against the Byzantines.

'Uthman's murder and the accession of 'Ali to the Caliphate in 656 gave Mu'awiya an opportunity to seize power. 'Ali had problems establishing his legitimacy. When 'Ali asked Mu'awiya for an oath of allegience, much of the Syrian population believed that 'Ali was responsible for 'Uthman's murder. Mu'awiya refused to pledge his allegience to 'Ali. The two men fought at the Battle of Siffin in 657 A.D.. Mu'awiya called for arbitration, which ultimately solved nothing. It did, however, delegitimized 'Ali in the eyes of many of his supporters. The Syrians named Mu'awiya the Caliph, and he took Egypt in the same year. Mu'awiya then took over Iraq and moved the seat of the Caliphate to Damascus.

Mu'awiya attacked the Byzantines in Anatolia and in North Africa and conquered Tripolitania and Ifriqiyah, launching attacks into, what is now Algeria. Mu'awiya also led to a three-year seige of Constantinople (674-677) and expanded his empire to the Oxus River.

Mu'awiya governed his empire with a combination of Arab tribal tradition and Byzantine administration. He had the loyalty of the Syrians and pacified the Iraqi tribes by adopting the traditional council of elders where each tribe was represented by its leader at a council that was linked to the caliph through his governors. Mu'awiya also used the Byzantine administrative offices, employing Christians, who in some cases, were from the same families that had served the Byzantine government. Mu'awiya also credited special bureaus, known as diwan, in order to centralize the government.

Mu'awiya's designated his son Yazid as his successor, establishing hereditary succession as the norm for the Caliphate.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/M/muawiya.html

Cursed be to the infidels!! Allahu Akbar!!

Larry_Oldtimer

11-16-2004, 12:57 PM

If it moves, and there is any doubt in a soldier's mind, shoot it. No point in taking reckless chances. These are the same people who just killed Margaret Hassan, the aid worker. Fuck them all. I wouldn't so much as piss on one of them if he was on fire. >:(

WCP

11-16-2004, 01:00 PM

Who would be crying for the Marines had they been blown away by that filthy terrorist rigged with C4? The bed wetting bleeding heart liberals?

Not on your life.

Jethro Tull

11-16-2004, 01:17 PM

polaris

11-16-2004, 01:20 PM

We all know what this particular incident is all about: the media is still deeply steamed over the Bush victory, and are, if anything, more hateful than before the election.

They will do everything they can to harm this marine, the military, their own country and its security if by doing so they can harm their arch-enemy: George W. Bush.

And by implication all 'red-staters'.

jAfO

11-16-2004, 02:09 PM

There are issues to be considered here other than whether capping that guy was a righteous shoot.

JaFO, you may not know Arabs as well as you think. There is a huge difference between humiliating a prisoner and finishing off a wounded enemy in Arab tradition. Unless we make a big deal out of it, the local populace probably will not see it as much of an issue.

They wouldn't see it as much of an issue if it was a Arab capping another Arab, but that isn't what happend. An Infidel unbeliever capped a Muslim freedom fighter in a Mosque. I'm afraid the whole ME is gonna make a big deal about this whether we do or not.

A more important question to be asked is why these wounded insurgents were simply left in place and not taken into custody and given medical care. There ARE times when a follow on unit may have to assume control of prisoners from a unit that is continuing the advance, however, these 5 wounded insurgents should have been at least tagged and marked as having been checked for weapons, not simply left behind for another unit to have to figure out.

At worst, we have a violation of the UCMJ. At best, we have some sloppy work by both units involved.

Good point, a friend and I talked about this earlier. someone f'ed up big time!

jAfO

11-16-2004, 03:18 PM

This Marine isn't going to be made a media scapegoat.

The USMC Commander on the scene said this morning that it was important not to jump to conclusions, and to allow the investigation to proceed. I fully expect the investigation to clear him.

There is no reason to presume any PC considerations will enter into this case, despite the whining of the left and the media. They LOST the election.

jAf0 keeps his record of asininely ignorant statements intact with the "Iraqi people" remark. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis are Shi'ites and Kurds, who hate the Sunni Ba'athists' guts. Probably a fair proportion of non-Ba'athist Sunnis would agree, as well.

The "Iraqi people" are wondering why we are taking ANY prisoners.

The Sunnites still comprise about 30% of the Iraqi population and can't be ignored as a group. And even though the Shi'ites hate the Sunnites they will still unite against us if they perceive us to be the greater enemy. Remember that no matter which group you are dealing with we are still the infidel unbelievers. This will come back to bite us in the ass I guarantee it.

wendy

11-16-2004, 04:06 PM

WCP

11-16-2004, 04:11 PM

I'm sick and tired of this PC bullshit. Who the hell wants to be the first Marine in line to check and see if the terrorist laying curled up in a corner is faking and just waiting to blow him into little pieces? Anyone here want to take that job?

Sign up or shut up.

What they should have done is lobbed in a frag grenade before they went in, that way there would be no doubt the insurgents were heavily armed and dangerous.

Bet that doesn't happen again. And another thing, if anything happens to that grunt, you're gonna see some payback with the embedded photographers. They'll have bounties on their asses. Their lifespan will be just about nill.

Bassman

11-16-2004, 05:49 PM

What they should have done is lobbed in a frag grenade before they went in, that way there would be no doubt the insurgents were heavily armed and dangerous.

Bet that doesn't happen again. And another thing, if anything happens to that grunt, you're gonna see some payback with the embedded photographers. They'll have bounties on their asses. Their lifespan will be just about nill.

Especially the maggot Kevin Sites.What a fucking pompous douchebag.He couldn't show more disdain for those Marines if he tried.
I hope his body armor mysteriously disappears .

WCP

11-16-2004, 05:52 PM

Especially the maggot Kevin Sites.What a fucking pompous douchebag.He couldn't show more disdain for those Marines if he tried.
I hope his body armor mysteriously disappears .

I've never heard of Sites before. Are you suggesting he has a bias? I know it may be a stupid question.

Why would they allow biased reporters out there?

Bassman

11-16-2004, 06:03 PM

I've never heard of Sites before. Are you suggesting he has a bias? I know it may be a stupid question.

Why would they allow biased reporters out there?

NBC.He seems to always want to generate sympathy for the cockroaches."Vastly outgunned" "overwhelming force" "2000 lb bombs on a single structure" "tanks blasting tiny alleys"are a few of his better gems.
And he ALWAYS just HAS to mention how our cleaning out the rat's nest might piss off Iraqis more than pacify a dangerous place.

I guess one or two biased cocksuckers manage to slip by.

WCP

11-16-2004, 06:07 PM

NBC.He seems to always want to generate sympathy for the cockroaches."Vastly outgunned" "overwhelming force" "2000 lb bombs on a single structure" "tanks blasting tiny alleys"are a few of his better gems.
And he ALWAYS just HAS to mention how our cleaning out the rat's nest might piss off Iraqis more than pacify a dangerous place.

I guess one or two biased cocksuckers manage to slip by.

If anything happens to that grunt, Mr. Sites might consider being a tad on the "tense" side the next time he goes out in the bush with a bunch of pissed of Marines.

Bassman

11-16-2004, 06:11 PM

If anything happens to that grunt, Mr. Sites might consider being a tad on the "tense" side the next time he goes out in the bush with a bunch of pissed of Marines.

Yup.Next time they encounter a few poor defenseless "insurgents" in a mosque after taking fire from it,maybe the Marines oughta bundle his worthless pinko ass in there by himself to see if they're harmless....

HarvickFan29

11-16-2004, 09:11 PM

If it was John Fucking Kerry, he would have gotten a Silver Star (with a cluster). ::)

Oh, yeah...and 15 Purple Hearts.

Kerry was awarded a medal for a similar situation.

Jethro Tull

11-16-2004, 10:21 PM

For the record, the relevant provisions of the Geneva Convention:

Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

* * * * *

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. .

* * * * *

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

[bold emphasis added for the benefit of AADD sufferers]

These guys are NOT protected by the GC.

Had the hostile in question been allowed to detonate an explosive device, killing all the Marines, no doubt many here would be happier . . .

::)

I-RIGHT-I

11-18-2004, 05:48 AM

That's too bad. The soldier should have shot the NBC guy's too. Now he's going to have to pay for doing the right thing.

The safe money is on betting this NBC guy not living through his next inbedded assignment.

U.S. investigation
of mosque killing
is expanded
Was more than one insurgent shot to death? (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6502452/)

BAGHDAD, Iraq - As U.S. and Iraqi officials expressed concerns and regrets about the fatal shooting by a U.S. Marine of a wounded and apparently unarmed man in a Fallujah mosque, the U.S. military said Wednesday it is investigating whether other wounded Iraqis in the mosque were similarly killed.

"Was more than one kidnapping murdering cowardly bastard insurgent shot to death?"

You have got to be fucking kidding me. I've just about had it with these people. Time to up my meds.

HarvickFan29

11-18-2004, 11:11 AM

Time to up my meds.

Time to up the bullet count.

I-RIGHT-I

11-18-2004, 01:33 PM

The propaganda arm of the Islamofascists seem to be taking a beating. Good job boys!

US 'to blame' for journalist deaths
From correspondents in Lisbon, Portugal
19nov04 (http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,11433640%255E1702,00.html)
THE global managing editor of British news agency Reuters said today the US military was entirely to blame for the deaths of three of its employees in Iraq since the start of the war there in March 2003, an allegation disputed by the Pentagon.

"All of them were killed by the American army," Reuters chief David Schlesinger told reporters on the sidelines of a media conference in the southern Portuguese resort of Vilamoura, Portuguese national news agency Lusa reported.

"There is no understanding on the part of the US military regarding the exercise of journalism," he said, according to the agency.

"We can't run the risk that journalists will become targets (in Iraq). We must learn the lessons from these tragic cases."

Two Reuters photographers and a cameraman are among the more than 60 war-related deaths of media workers recorded in Iraq.

wendy

11-18-2004, 09:29 PM

The safe money is on betting this NBC guy not living through his next inbedded assignment.

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6502452/]
[/color]

The author of that article just can't seem to call the "wounded man" what he was....a terrorist who had been busy trying to kill Americans before he was stopped....with a bullet. The SCOTUS has determined that unlawful combatants are not accorded POW status. That piece of shit got a better death than he deserved.

Flyrod

11-18-2004, 10:24 PM

The author of that article just can't seem to call the "wounded man" what he was....a terrorist who had been busy trying to kill Americans before he was stopped....with a bullet. The SCOTUS has determined that unlawful combatants are not accorded POW status. That piece of shit got a better death than he deserved.

AGREED!

HarvickFan29

11-18-2004, 11:18 PM

That piece of shit got a better death than he deserved.

You damned right he did!

Flyrod

11-19-2004, 03:46 AM

For the record, the relevant provisions of the Geneva Convention:[bold emphasis added for the benefit of AADD sufferers]

These guys are NOT protected by the GC.

Had the hostile in question been allowed to detonate an explosive device, killing all the Marines, no doubt many here would be happier . . .

::)

I would surely hope the sobs are not protected by the Geneva convention, by wearing civilian clothes, hiding behind women and children, mosques, houses, blowing up their own infrastructure, executing foreign and domestics, and being openly supported by the subversive democrats, main stream media, and communists in the USA!!

Whiskey4bfast

11-19-2004, 07:52 AM

If anything happens to that grunt, Mr. Sites might consider being a tad on the "tense" side the next time he goes out in the bush with a bunch of pissed of Marines.
.....but.....why kill all those 'innocent" Arabs??

I think Bill Clinton said it best:

"Because I could....."

Right on Bill......

Whiskey4bfast

11-19-2004, 08:07 AM

What they should have done is lobbed in a frag grenade before they went in, that way there would be no doubt the insurgents were heavily armed and dangerous.Makes sense to me.

I saw on the tube the other night an Army Colonel who won the Medal of Honor pretty much saying the Marine was wrong. I knew he was going to be talking out his ass when he felt the need to tell everyone the battle's in Vietnam he had participated in. Just because you win a CMH doesn't give you any particular inisght into a completely different situation (country, war, culture, etc.).

All these people talking about AK's and grenades on the insurgents are missing the point too. These guys are rigged with C-4, etc. set up to go off on movement, either self initated by the "insurgent" or one or our guys. Get real Colonel! This jarhead was doing his job!

Bet that doesn't happen again. And another thing, if anything happens to that grunt, you're gonna see some payback with the embedded photographers. They'll have bounties on their asses. Their lifespan will be just about nill.
Hey, karma can be a real bitch. :o

LanceALott

11-19-2004, 08:43 AM

Hey, karma can be a real bitch. :o

Hey, you met Karma too?

Sure she was a real bitch, but she was cheap.

LanceALott

11-19-2004, 09:02 AM

Makes sense to me.

I saw on the tube the other night an Army Colonel who won the Medal of Honor pretty much saying the Marine was wrong.

That Army Colonel is a hell of a lot smarter, and braver, than you. That's why he was the most highly decorated soldier from Vietnam. -- He understands why that war crime in Iraq was a mistake, the same sort of mistake that cost the US the Vietnam war.

It is really a rather small step from the deliberate murder of wounded prisoners to cutting off the head of the woman like the "terrorists" did. And As I read this thread, it becomes increasingly clear that some of you would take, or at least condone, that step somewhere in the not too distand future.

And when we do take that step out of frustration and desperation, we will erase any differences between us and them. Then we might as well have become the enemy. And when we have become one of them, what in the hell will we be fighting for?

Oh, yes, the oil.

HarvickFan29

11-19-2004, 09:55 AM

It is really a rather small step from the deliberate murder of wounded prisoners to cutting off the head of the woman like the "terrorists" did.

Well, that would be true if they were "wonded prisoners" but they are not. They are terrorists, and the soldier did the right thing.

And As I read this thread, it becomes increasingly clear that some of you would take, or at least condone, that step somewhere in the not too distand future.

Then you would need to take a reading comprrehension class to work on the lack of skills you have.

Eyes

11-20-2004, 04:51 AM

http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum8/HTML/013054.html

I-RIGHT-I

11-20-2004, 05:58 AM

-- He understands why that war crime in Iraq was a mistake, the same sort of mistake that cost the US the Vietnam war.

The only mistake we made in Vietnam was to not shoot fuckers like you and John Kerry when you opened your filthy mouths. We're making the same mistake again but once we get hit hard on the mainland one more time the joke will be over. People like you will shut up or be confined to one of the detention camps George started building in 2000. In your wildest dreams you could never imagine what Jesusland has in store for people like you.

Larry_Oldtimer

11-20-2004, 09:01 AM

First of all, the terrorist shot was not a prisoner! He hadn't been searched and taken prisoner. Second, the Marine had a duty to protect not only himself, but other Marines, and did so. He would have been derelict in his duty had he not shot the terrorist. It is not as if the Marine was making a practice of shooting wounded and unarmed terrorists, not hardly. The hands of the terrorist were not in sight, the Marine had no idea of how badly, or not, the terrorist was, and it is common knowledge that these terrorists have been quite willing to commit suicide if they can take some Marines with them. Nope . . . it wasn't even in the catagory of a "mistake" but rather what he should have done and did. ;) "When in doubt, take them out" should be the rule to be followed.

LanceALott

11-20-2004, 09:30 AM

HarvickFan29

11-20-2004, 11:12 AM

It is not as if the Marine was making a practice of shooting wounded and unarmed terrorists, not hardly.

But that is what the anti-Bushites like the main moron here wants everyone to believe, and that our soldiers should just put daisies in their barrels and call it a day! ::)

HarvickFan29

11-20-2004, 11:17 AM

I bet you could justify every atrocity our side committed, even beheading everybody YOU call a terrorist.

Morons like you hope for a high body count of Americans.You'd just love it if the American body bags started piling up like in the war the leftist pig LBJ escalated. Don't worry this isn't a war for political gain like it was with LBJ and Vietnam.

MidnightRider

11-20-2004, 11:30 AM

That is just terrible. I don't know what this world is coming too. Ay Ay Ay!.

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 12:02 PM

http://www.petitiononline.com/

Over 90,000 people have signed the petition to Congress that this matter be officially dropped.

I am one of them.

:)

Larry_Oldtimer

11-20-2004, 02:16 PM

Thanks for posting the petition URL, Laz. 94322 Signatures total following mine. ;)

polaris

11-20-2004, 02:20 PM

Even I added my name, and hell, i don't even HAVE a congressman!

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 03:05 PM

Thanks for posting the petition URL, Laz. 94322 Signatures total following mine. ;)

Looks like a couple of thousand per hour. :)

Observer

11-20-2004, 03:07 PM

This is an internal problem for the Marine Corps. The outcome should be determined by their investigation of the incident, not public opinion.

If the Marine in question violated the UCMJ and orders from his superiors (as set forth in the Rules of Engagement) he needs to be punished in whatever manner regulations dictate. If he did not violate the UCMJ and orders from his superiors, he needs to given an "attaboy", returned to duty, and left alone.

It's not really a big deal.

ilovelucy

11-20-2004, 03:17 PM

Difficult to judge when actually we don't know enough about the situation......

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 03:19 PM

Even I added my name, and hell, i don't even HAVE a congressman!

Why that's okay. Even Holly signed it!

See? Somebody signed it and left this web address for a comment. (http://www.feralnews.com/)

;)

MidnightRider

11-20-2004, 03:31 PM

Looks like a couple of thousand per hour. :)
Wow that is a lot. I think I will sign my name as well.

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 04:12 PM

I have not read all of the comments, but here are just a smattering of them:

Name Comments
96917. Chelsea Rodriguez
96916. William Hoelscher The public is trying to crucify this Marine for doing his job.

96914. David R. Webber That marine did nothing more than he was trained to do. Anyone who has been in that same situation would have followed the rules of survival!

96910. Richard Whittington Let those that criticize first walk in the shoes of those they point the finger at.

96908. Maria Nelson YOU got us in this, Now at least be fair to those you have sent to do a nasty job. These are young men and women that are afraid of being mamed or killed. YOU need to support what you have asked them to do. Stop this nonsense, We are AT war... YOUR words. It is unfortunate that people die , but it is war. We are told that every day here. How can the leaders ask these young men and women to go in and secure a place, especially since over 1000 of our sons and daughters have been blown up or shot at By these same insurgents. Nothing makes sense anymore. YOU either ask our soldiers to shoot them or we need to play chess with them..

96906. Donald L. Meenach I heartily support our Marines, they are doing their duty in a very proud way.

96904. Helen Angel Kirby He should be exonerated.

96903. ed steiger one less terorist !

96902. CTO3 Fields, Jimmy T. USN Full supporter of US Troops in Iraq

96899. R Hoess Our troups should get metals! They should kill some more and get metals some more! We are Americans and we have a write to kill any one who tires to mess withj us! Gott bless Americas!
96898. Herman Allison If you start condemning military personnel for performing their assigned duties, you'll play hell ever getting another volunteer!!

96897. cindy holloway I believe our men & women are doing the best they can in the worse situations. I also believe the MEDIA should shut their mouths when it comes to reporting ONLY the bad stuff! The military is the best thing we have & are protecting the USA & the media from further terrorist activities! GO AWAY MEDIA! STOP PRINTING LIES!

96895. Laurie Kanta This is war with persons of no conscience. We must support our troops. this means more than sticking magnets on our cars and packing boxes of toiletries!

96893. Neta Colteaux My son is in Iraq ,need I say more? Our brave Marine was right in what he did.

96892. Chris Aycock The insurgents chose to fight when they were warned of the consequences. Shoot to kill not to mame.

96891. John jakosky Throw some muslim women for this kid and let him rape them! give him a medal, hes too stressed!

96890. Lorraine Cummiskey The insurgents are the most evil animals that our marines could ever encounter. What they have done to our soldiers and their own people is a monstrosity. I do not blame any marine for not trusting any of these insurgents. Therefore, this marine has my support fully.

96887. judy sullivan the enemy is vicious, use what ever means it takes!

96883. Ronald J. Howell, Sr. "...Semper Fi..."

96880. EDWIN R. VOYLES,SR YOU DON'T WIN WARS BY BEING A PATSY!!!

96877. David Napier He should be praised for doing his job.

96875. Timothy E. Horning I strongly support the actions of this soldier.

96873. Donna Maria Paone The gov't should pull everyone out or let them do their job.

96868. George plate God bless our brave muslim killers!
96867. jim hutchinson iraq is a hell of a place to die. ( so was viet-nam)

96866. Arthur W. Wilson Soldiers and Marines are taught to kill. It is a component part of the military code. To denigrate a combat soldier because he makes sure he or his comrades will not be shot in the back as he moves on from the body of an enemy he has already learned does not abide by ANY of the RULES of WAR laid down in the Geneva Convention is foolhardy. It is asinine, stupidity of the highest degree. Thankfully the Marine was smart. He cherished his own life and that of his comrades. Only those who have never experienced the high strung tension and turmoil of combat as they recline in safety, watching TV, would castigate the Marine for doing his duty. It is easy to cast stones when under the protection of such men as the Marine who is currently being savaged by the media and the unthinking citizenry of our nation. To those I say, cheer up, there will be others to assault and smear to make headlines as long as we as nation are involved in warfare.

96863. Edward Ireland Give him a metal, I'm a WWII vet.....

96862. Ray Daugherty Let The Marine do there jobs

96860. Ronald J. Howell, Sr. "...Semper Fi..."

96858. Elenor DeLuca America is at war and he was right for doing what he did.

96856. Patricia Chambless In total agreement

96853. McKinzie Weiss This marine was doing his best to protect himself and fellow troops.
96852. Robert Ley God Bless our killers! Semper Fi and kill some moor!

96850. Eric Lamazar this guy is inacent and was doing his job ! he should be comended for this heroic act ! if he gets in any kind of trouble from the us military then the military is not doing there duty to the american people buy protecting us !

96847. Sully william So what if men are not allowed to leave the city? They are born at the wrong place and at the wrong time! Americans are superior , deal with it!

96845. Ryan Armstrong Under diress of war and with the tactics that these terrorists use; what the Marine did was totally understandable.
96844. Emily Hoffmann God Bless.
96843. Tony Rast War is Hell!

96842. Bill Williams If they were not Terrorists, they would have evacuated the city with the rest of the innocent

96837. Marie Barlotta REMOVE these reporters from the battlefield..They have become like the insidious, biased ACLU, with their secret agendas, to destroy whatever does not fit into their approval box

96831. Viola Mierow God bless this Marine

96827. Dennis Buonocore God Bless the military and the US. The press needs to leave the soldiers alone and let them do their job.

96826. Joe Talamo This is war not a game, he defended himself and for other marine..

96825. Arthur W. Wilson Soldiers and Marines are taught to kill. It is a component part of the military code. To denigrate a combat soldier because he makes sure he or his comrades will not be shot in the back as he moves on from the body of an enemy he has already learned does not abide by ANY of the RULES of WAR laid down in the Geneva Convention is foolhardy. It is asinine, stupidity of the highest degree. Thankfully the Marine was smart. He cherished his own life and that of his comrades. Only those who have never experienced the high strung tension and turmoil of combat as they recline in safety, watching TV, would castigate the Marine for doing his duty. It is easy to cast stones when under the protection of such men as the Marine who is currently being savaged by the media and the unthinking citizenry of our nation. To those I say, cheer up, there will be others to assault and smear to make headlines as long as we as nation are involved in warfare.

96821. Larry U. Spinosa I'm a retired police officer. lets show a little backbone here.

;D

backlash

11-20-2004, 04:56 PM

Signed. Now past 98000. America stands up for her son.

Observer

11-20-2004, 05:19 PM

96899. R Hoess Our troups should get metals! They should kill some more and get metals some more! We are Americans and we have a write to kill any one who tires to mess withj us! Gott bless Americas!

R. Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz.

Why are civilians trying to interfere with the Marine Corps administration of justice to one of its own?

wendy

11-20-2004, 05:34 PM

Why?

Because some hotshot reporter decided a picture of a Marine killing a poor wounded old Iraqi man (they conveniently leave out the fact that he was a terrorist) would earn him a shitload of recognition.

Because CNN decided it would strenghthen their ideological position to show the video 10 freaking times a hour for days on end.

People are afraid this guy is going to be thrown to the wolves in order to pander to Muslims. We all know they could execute him in front of a firing squad and the scum that lives on the word of Al-Jazeera would still hate our guts. Perhaps people are speaking out because they are sick and damned tired of the political correctness that makes us apologize for defending ourselves.

Observer

11-20-2004, 05:57 PM

The decision whether to prosecute or not prosecute lies with the Marine Corps JAG. That's the way it should be. The opinions of 50 million civilians in one direction or the other should not influence that decision in the least.

backlash

11-20-2004, 06:24 PM

truelies

11-20-2004, 06:29 PM

..........................Because CNN decided it would strenghthen their ideological position to show the video 10 freaking times a hour for days on end..............................

Kinda like the Rodney King tape.

Observer

11-20-2004, 06:36 PM

Fine. Don't sign.

DO you believe civilians should be permitted to interfere in matters of military discipline?

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 06:38 PM

Neither should the media influence it in the least.

Yet, when those with Freedom of the Press decide to use it so as to undermine the those who would defend the nation, then We, who have freedom of speech and the right to petition the policymakers of the government would be remiss if we did not also speak out and protest if we believe that there were about to be, perhaps, a miscarriage of justice arising thereform.

100933 Total Signatures ;D

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 06:41 PM

R. Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz.

Why are civilians trying to interfere with the Marine Corps administration of justice to one of its own?

First, why are the newsmedia trying to act as this Marine's judge, jury and executioner--and are THEY not trying to unduly influence matters?

Observer

11-20-2004, 06:41 PM

It seems to me that such action indicates a lack of confidence in the military's ability to police itself.

backlash

11-20-2004, 06:49 PM

DO you believe civilians should be permitted to interfere in matters of military discipline?

The point of this petition, which you choose to sneer at, is to prevent the media from "interfering in matters of military discipline." Given the opportunity, they'll crucify him and the Pentagon might be persuaded to throw him to the wolves. If you choose not to participate, that's your right. Pardon me if I disagree and exercise my right to take part.

I will also support your right to be a disagreeable sorehead.
;)

Lazarus

11-20-2004, 07:01 PM

It seems to me that such action indicates a lack of confidence in the military's ability to police itself.

I think that all things being equal, then the military will handle it fine. Just don't want the deck to get stacked the wrong way.

More views...

Name Comments
101057. cathleen wisker

101056. richard thorpe It's a shame that we have to do this!

101055. Doris Waterman I do not think imbeded journalists should be in urban warfare settings. It is so easy to Monday night quarterback when you are in that setting protected by our Armed Forces.

101052. Terry Utter May my prayers keep you alive men.

101048. Christine Schuster Semper FI !! If the 1st UNIT didn't pass word that they left wounded insurgent's then how was the 2nd UNIT and that perticular Marine suppose to know that it wasn't a booby trap to possibly take out the Marines?? The Marine did what he was trained to do act 1st react 2nd.

101044. Carol Wood The media should not be in combat areas. The boys need to do the job they're sent to do and I support the way they have done it.

101043. Tibus, William M. This Warrior did the right thing !!!

101041. wayne niccum carry on

101040. Mireille Rizkalla The marine should be returned to duty. He should not be given an honorable discharge if he wants to stay. Under these hard circumstances, he did nothing wrong. It is always very easy to sit in the safety of your living room and pass judgement, and be very brave but when put under that same circumstance I am sure everybody would have acted the same way unless they had a suicide wish. Our troops have to know that we are behind them and that they have every right and even a duty to defend themselves without any hesitation.

101039. RW Fanire Semper Fi

101038. andy aitken I,m currently in Iraq and I would have reacted in the same way given the situation

101033. Mary Jane Gerity This Marine was doing his duty by protecting himself and his fellow warriors so that they could live to fight another day. Well done! I hope someone makes a video collage starting with video of the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, followed by footage of the USS Cole, and then footage of the twin towers falling. The video should be played again and again throughout the world. It may take the United States of America awhile to take action...but when they do it is decisive and deadly. We're not gonna take it anymore!.

'
101029. Douglas E Ward I'm a Viet Nam vet & in my opinion that Marine was just doing his job. If he had failed to kill that terrerist thean was killed along with his fellow Marines & the reporter than the libs would be screaming that the troops wernt doing their job.

101028. Barry Schoen A justified shooting in an ugly war.

101025. Nicholas J. Langenfeld The climate the biased media have brought to the difficult job our Marines have is unacceptable. Our men and women are held to a far higher standard than the insurgents are. While the insurgents are beheading individuals on video to intimidate our troops and other Iraqis who colaborate with the U.S., we are expected not to follow protocalls that will preserve the lives of our soldiers. Protect this Marine, he is doing a job that many of us can not or are unwilling to do.

101024. Rita Taylor May God Grant the Marine Peace of Mind

101023. Thomas J. Perrone semper fi-god bless the USMC.our prayers are with you.

101022. Lisa Snow (Navy Wife) He was doing his job.. and protecting his fellow marines.

101019. Raquel Dickenson The Marine is innocent...let him go free!

101016. ROBERT J. ZAMPINO LT/COL USAF(RET)

101015. Kathy Abrahamson The marine should not be punished!

101013. James B. Barker It may not be so bad...John Kerry did the same thing numerous times and he not only did not get into any trouble, but was nominated for president!!

101012. Pat Gabriele

101011. Andrea Gold Go USMC Go!!!

101010. Raymond J Gutierrez What would they have done to our children isf the situation was reversed?

101009. Dan Slivinski put the soldier back into his unit, and discharge the media instead!

101006. Helen Parker We support our troops. Give them all they need to finish the job.

101002. Tibus, William M. MSGT USMC Ret. This is one more reason why reporters shouldn't be allowed in combat situations. Our Warrior's are there to do a dirty job , they don't know who the enemy is, he can blend in with the populas very easily. "farmers by day , fighters by night". These insurgents don't go by the "rules of War" as our Warriors are bound by. This Marine has seen first hand what a wounded enemy is capable of, in my opinion "he did the right thing". If this insurent was booby trapped and it had gone off with the camera crew and reporter in the blast area, what would have been reported then ??????

101001. Margarita Rodriguez He did what he had to do

100998. Floyd C. Miller This attempt to prosecute is a travisty.

100997. Charles Grodahl He should be returned to his unit now!!!

100996. Chris Ryan Halme to be a marine is an honor, the marine in question may have saved many families grief and he should not be stripped of his honor.

100995. Frank Pirog He did what myself, and many , many others would have done.

100994. Audrey Franklin Stand by our men.

100993. Jonathan Henkel Kill 'em all - let god sort 'em out

100992. Vince Dabecco Send this Marine back to his unit NOW!

100991. Scott Fagust Why do we have to accomodate everyone & not take care of our own people?

100990. leslie brown

100989. scott bulpitt he should bereturned to active duty with no repercushions

100988. John W Little God Bless America

100987. Rich Mazurkiewicz V.V.A. Member-1st Cav Vet. - You Honor our Country.

100984. frederique dewavrin The marine followed his training and did the right thing.

100983. Joseph H Smith Msgt USAF/ret Viet Nam Vet and former Marine

100980. michael j. misch let the soldiers and marines do their job they train for

100977. Tanya Camacho This U.S. marine should be given the benefit of the doubt. Clearly, he believed the wounded man to be a threat to him and his comrads. I have no doubt that such an abrupt movement would have triggered the same response by any other U.S. Marine, soldier, or myself in the same situation.

100975. Robert C. Mims LOAC should not apply in this war. Only one side is using LOAC and the Geneva Convention

100970. Betsey Spicer [b]Give him a silver star!!p/b]

..Just in case he wants to run for President one day... ;)

100969. SSG.K W M cCullough Take the news meadia out of combat areas .so the troops can do there jobs and get back home.

100968. John Syme stop fighting a "nice" war & focus on wining the war

100967. Carolyn Petosky Keep up the good work!

100966. DEBRA ABRAMS I THOUGHT KILLING THE ENEMY WAS THE PURPOSE OF A WAR NOT WHAT THE MEDIA DECIDES IT IS.

100964. lucy &ramon martinez God Bless Our Troops
100963. Thomas L. Harden SemperFi

100962. Matthew K. Bailey Give 'em hell, boys!
100961. Joy Strzechowski We cannot be helped if we do not allow our military to protect themselves. I support the brave and heartbreaking choice of this marine. I do not believe this was a savage and mindless attack on an innocent citizen. I expect my Congress to cooperate and fully support him, his superiors and family during this turbulent time.

100958. John Scott McGaw Those who were not there should not presume to judge the conduct of those who were.

100956. Barbara Heym He was only doing his job and nothing more.

100955. Gregory W Hamilton It is my opinion that NOTHING should happen to this American Marine.

100954. James J. Stocki USMC 1966-1968

100953. Allen Let's not try second guessing our troops. They didn't kill the other wounded. You can only lower their morale. Should he have taken a vote ?

100950. Linda Warren This is war. Our soldiers need to be able to save themselves without being second-guessed by people who are not there and cannot understand the pressure they're under.

100949. Joey Johns I think we should shoot and ask questions later anytime our boys and girls are in harms way. Any one who dosen't agree should go over there and do the job themselves and let our people come home.

100946. MM3 Richard Allen Shivers, Jr. I am proud of this man who stands in the face of the enemy daily, fighting against those who would blindy shoot into a crowd of innocent people. I am serving my country as best as I can, and will support those who defend it with me. It is not a job that just anyone can do, and he is doing his job to protect innocent Americans and other innocent people around the world.

100944. James W. Wood This is war....he did what he had to do!

100943. TERRY J. WAYCHOFF THIS IS WAE. KILL OR BE KILLED

100940. Tibus, William M. MSGT USMC Ret. This is one more reason why reporters shouldn't be allowed in combat situations. Our Warrior's are there to do a dirty job , they don't know who the enemy is, he can blend in with the populas very easily. "farmers by day , fighters by night". These insurgents don't go by the "rules of War" as our Warriors are bound by. This Marine has seen first hand what a wounded enemy is capable of, in my opinion "he did the right thing". If this insurent was booby trapped and it had gone off with the camera crew and reporter in the blast area, what would have been reported then ??????

100939. Wilbert A. Cugler Put yourself in his shoes, you weren't there to know every little detail of what he might have gone through. For god sake have some sort of mercy!

100938. Phyllis Knusta U.S. Marines are all Heros

100936. ELLISON E. RAY I believe the soldier was doing the right thing and should not be punished

100935. Walter Harmel He is DOING his job!!!

100934. Norman Binder Take no prisoners

100933. Robert Birdsall Give em hell, boys

100932. Glenn Utter Just come home alive men thats what important.

100931. Ann B.Miles Our men and women who are in harm's way must do all they can to protect themselves from the ruleless and ruthless enemies to freedom and deserve all the support we can give them.

100930. Michelle Holmes he is serving with all his heart where are you during this war time

100929. Melanie Hogan I agree 100%
100928. Raymond Moulton don't do it !

100927. Hugh Byrd I fully agree tahr nothing should be done to the indiviaul nor anyone else in the same or similiar situations

100926. Bill and Mary Kobasz God Bless this marine for good judgment,He needs to be protected

100925. Nancy M. Parrish That was clearly self-defense!!

100923. Lee Pinkney Powell, Jr. the white flag trick was used again today.

100921. Dianne Ashley Our country sent them over there, Our country should stand behind them when they do whatever it takes to defend themselves. This quick-thinking brave US Marine prevented this insurgent from killing one more innocent person. This is a war, not a practice for war, and the insurgents are the enemy. How do you think we won World War II? I think we need to keep the media off the battlefield and stop feeding the bleeding heart pacifists.

100914. Larry R Woodard We should spend more time protecting our young men and women in combat situations than prosecuting them

100910. William P. Tiedje Good job Marine !!!

100907. David H Rue Don't futher tie the hands of those brave and willing to fight for the Free World where life and liberty is respected!

100906. Donald J.Wiggins This Marine was protecting His buddy's and himself

100903. Ernesto Benevento Keep up the good work

100901. Bruce Cullen Only in America would someone do this to thier on military.

100900. Ovi Lalo The Marine was doing his job, protecting the soldiers and himself. The terrorists are the murderers, torturing and killing innocent men, women and children while video taping it. Has the world become so blind that they no longer know the difference between good and evil?

100898. Jeannine Doran What about the insurgents who showed a white flag and when our trooops went up to them they fired on US. Is that justice or war?

100896. A .hiler innocent

100895. THERESA WALKER Support our young troops.

100893. Allen Let's not try second guessing our troops. You can only lower their morale. Should he have taken a vote ?

100891. Sharon Graham I would have done the same thing-these people do not play by the Geneva Convension-leave him alone

100889. Barbara J. Toomey God Bless our men over there

100887. Aaron Sutherland I would have done the same thing!!

100886. Dennis W. Decker It appears to me that he was just doing his job.

100884. Richard J Creedon We are at war with terrorists that are using unbeleivable brutality and suicidal tactics. When in doubt kill or be killed, OUR TROOPS should not be placed in harms way by assuming we are dealing with a civilized enemy ......because we are NOT!

100882. Ray B Cooley Get the bleeding hearts out of the military's way and let them do their job.

100881. Robert M. Manning It is wrong for people who have never been in a combat environment to judge those who have.

100879. Scott K I can't imagine what hell these young American men and women are going through and I wouldn't dream of trying to pronounce judgement on the marine that shot the wounded insurgent. I think the news crew that took the story and ran with it are irresponsible and they are severly damaging what we are doing to help the Iraqi people. That story will fire up a lot of people against Americans and certainly lead to more kidnappings and beheadings.

100878. Tim Morin Kill'em All - Let allah Sort'em Out!

100876. Eric S. Bailey He did his job and let him be.

100874. Charlie Duckett This marine deserves a medal. The reporter should be sent packing.

100872. SFC RICHARD ANDREWS, USA RETIRED THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SOME COMMUNICATION OF THE LEFT BEHIND WOUNDED INSURGENTS. MISS COMMUNICATION OR NO COMMO ON THE BATTLE FIELD LEAVES THE FRONT LINE SOLDIER TO MAKE ON SPOT DECISION TO ELIMINATE A THREAT. MORE IMPORTANT IN THE HEAT OF A BATTLE AS OUR BOYS AND GIRLS ARE FACING, YOU BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY. I WOULD RATHER BE TRIED BY 12 THAN TO BE CARRIED OUT OF THIS WORLD BY 6.

100871. Jay C) Dunne God Bless the USMC

100869. Lynn Johns Our boys are over there, Not knowing what to do one way or the other. They don't know if they are dealing with hostiles or allies. Most of these boys are young men, staight out of high school. They have been taught to do one thing, but when they do what they are taught, then they are held for murder. How can anyone who hasn't been there and don't know what it like to be there. Should not judge. If you want the job done, then let them do the job and come home.

100868. Glen Willcox

100867. Claire LiMandri

100866. rodney wells

100864. Roberta Kelly One US Marine is worth 100,000 Arab insurgents

100863. ken knops let the military do their job

100862. DK Patterson God bless our Service men & women

100861. Mandi Humphries it is war, people will die

100859. Richard Martin Had this soldier not shot this terrorist, and the man turned out to be a suicide bomber attemting to lure our soldiers in to be blown up, he was protecting his crew by removing the threat. He is a good soldier.

100858. M.L. Anderson Get the stupid embedded network reporters out of Iraq.

100857. Thomas B Hunter Jr Get the reporters out of platoons and into briefings ... this is war not business as usual

;D

Observer

11-20-2004, 07:01 PM

Whiskey4bfast

11-20-2004, 09:34 PM

The media can write and say whatever they want, but unless they are assigned to the Marine Corps JAG, they can't DO a damned thing.

For what it is worth, I understand completely why this petition is being put forward. I just see it as inappropriate. I suspect the Marine Corps is more than capable of ascertaining the facts of the incident and rendering the appropriate decision with regard to what further legal action (if any) is required.

I was not there and don't know what happened. You were not there and don't know what happened. It is possible that a violation of the UCMJ occurred. If that proved to be the case, would you still petition to have the issue dropped?

What I am saying here is that this is an issue that should be decided by the Marine Corps. They should be trusted to do the right thing here, regardless of what the popular opinion is. If the USMC decides the kid needs to be prosecuted, he needs to be prosecuted. If they decide there is no reason to prosecute, the issue should be dropped. Either way, petitions or press coverage should not influence the process.
The Marine was right.

The "Imbedded Photog" was wrong.

Assign the photog to another Marine Co. inserted in a "sequestered" operation away from "prying eyes".

That oughta do it.... 8)

Larry_Oldtimer

11-20-2004, 10:51 PM

The media can write and say whatever they want, but unless they are assigned to the Marine Corps JAG, they can't DO a damned thing.

For what it is worth, I understand completely why this petition is being put forward. I just see it as inappropriate. I suspect the Marine Corps is more than capable of ascertaining the facts of the incident and rendering the appropriate decision with regard to what further legal action (if any) is required.

I was not there and don't know what happened. You were not there and don't know what happened. It is possible that a violation of the UCMJ occurred. If that proved to be the case, would you still petition to have the issue dropped?

What I am saying here is that this is an issue that should be decided by the Marine Corps. They should be trusted to do the right thing here, regardless of what the popular opinion is. If the USMC decides the kid needs to be prosecuted, he needs to be prosecuted. If they decide there is no reason to prosecute, the issue should be dropped. Either way, petitions or press coverage should not influence the process.

It creates a lot of political pressure when the media runs off like this, and the military gets funded by the politicians. No matter how well you might think the Corps will act, there are lots of higher ranking personnel in the military who are damn sensitive to political pressure. Officers below them are aware of this. There is no way that politics can be separated from military. This petition is merely a friendly way of demonstrating to the politicians, not the Marine Corps, that the Corps better be left to evaluate this one without political pressure being applied. ;)

Eyes

11-21-2004, 05:39 AM

http://www.petitiononline.com/

Over 90,000 people have signed the petition to Congress that this matter be officially dropped.

I am one of them.

:)
And so am I. Thank you for the post and the link Lazarus.

Observer

11-21-2004, 08:38 AM

This petition is merely a friendly way of demonstrating to the politicians, not the Marine Corps, that the Corps better be left to evaluate this one without political pressure being applied.

That is not what it says.

It is my opinion that NOTHING should happen to this American Marine. He should be returned to his unit or be given an honorable discharge. We don't need our young men and women taking an extra second to decide if its right to shoot an enemy terrorist when that could mean that one of our soldiers could lose their life. The lives of our soldiers should be the single most important factor in this war against terrorism. The rights of terrorists can come second.

That is a clear attempt to influence the decision making process, to meddle in the internal affairs of the Marine Corps. It is as wrong as starting a petition to have the Marine's head on a stake would be.

If the petition simply called for the Marine Corps to investigate the incident and reach a decision based solely on the evidence, with complete disregard for any external opinions, I wouldn't have any objection to it. That is not what it does, though. It calls for the Marines to classify it as a righteous shoot, regardless of what their findings indicate.

That's wrong.

WCP

11-21-2004, 08:44 AM

I signed it and I'm not trying to influence anyone. I'm just expressing my opinion of the information that has been fed to us via the media. I wasn't there. I didn't see what happened. I don't know why the Marine got shot in the face the day before. I don't know how many of his buddies were blown away by the enemy in the previous few hours.

I just voiced my thought from what information I had that he shouldn't be punished.

I don't expect anyone to follow my advice.

truelies

11-21-2004, 08:46 AM

That is not what it says.That is a clear attempt to influence the decision making process, to meddle in the internal affairs of the Marine Corps..........................

So what?????????? The Marine Corp is the property of the American People. Given the number of corrupt Clintonistas who have NOT been purged from the upper reaches of the Military it is not at all unreasonable that many Americans do not trust that a Right rather than a PC decision will be reached.

Observer

11-21-2004, 09:07 AM

bad,

I see a big difference between civilian oversight of the military and civilians attempting to manipulate the internal affairs of the different services. We have an incident here that none of us witnessed. All we have are second and third hand accounts of what transpired.

We know one of two things happened.

1. The Marine shot and killed an enemy combatant in compliance with the Laws of Land Warfare and the Rules of Engagement established by his superiors.

2. The Marine unlawfully shot and killed a wounded, combat ineffective non-combatant who by regulation and the Laws of Land Warfare was required to be protected from further harm by the capturing forces.

There is a third possibility... He shot a wounded non-combatant he mistakenly regarded as a threat. I would write that off as falling under category 1.

Now, the only ones who should be involved in deciding the fate of this young Marine are his military superiors, not you, not me, not big media... The Marines. If he did in fact violate the RoE and the UCMJ and willingly and knowingly did shoot and kill a non-combatant in US custody, he needs to answer for that. It indicates a breach of discipline and if ignored or excused can lead to much larger problems down the line. If it was a righteous shoot (and I suspect it was), the Marines need to be the ones to clear him of any wrongdoing. Again, not you, not me, not big media... The Marines.

Allowing public opinion to influence the decision making process in the services, whether it involves operational matters, disciplinary matters, or even things like uniform regulations (remember the beret issue in the Army) opens some doors I don't think we can afford to ever have opened. The military is and needs to be a closed society. The civil authority needs to oversee it and set the broadest guidelines regarding policy and the use of the military, but it needs to allow the military to handle its own internal affairs, especially with regard to discipline. It needs to be trusted to do the right thing.

WCP

11-21-2004, 09:23 AM

Observer,

The Marine Corps doesn't give a fuck what civilians think or say. They don't even care if we exist. The Marine Corps thinks of everyone else as a mild nuisance, such as athlete's foot or a canker sore. They will not follow the advice of civilians. They never have and they never will.

I took the poll because I wanted to with full knowledge that it will never reach the Commandant's desk let alone be remanufactured into shit paper to wipe his ass. The Marine Corps will not be influenced by anything we, as citizens, have to say one way or other. They will not answer to anyone but the President, the Commandant and God. In that order.

They will follow the code, not what some slack-jawed faggot news reporter is saying on CNN, ABC, CBS or whatever civilian media is out there.

HollyBaere

11-21-2004, 09:36 AM

Right or wrong, legal or not, there is a problem with actions like these.

If the insurgents know that the U.S. troops no longer take prisoners it will give them the "excuse" to execute any and all of the American POW's now in their control.

The insurgents, knowing they will die anyway, may use even more suicide attacks on our troops.

When the report was aired on T.V., they had all kinds of "experts" claiming the the insuregents were booby-trapping dead bodies. I know I have no experience in this area, but wouldn't shooting at a body in this state, cause what ever it was rigged with to go off?? And if the soldier was close enough, wouldn't he be injured by the blast?

Actions like these worry me, because it might put our soldiers in even more danger from acts of retaliation.

WCP

11-21-2004, 09:41 AM

Right or wrong, legal or not, there is a problem with actions like these.

Holly, the U.S. forces were told that the enemy in Falluja was going to fight to the death. Now, of course we know that means in Arabian "Until the shooting starts and then we will run away."

The object of this exercise in Falluja was to kill every single last person in that city, not to capture them, not to make them prisoners. To kill them. They do not send in Marines to take prisoners.

HollyBaere

11-21-2004, 10:00 AM

Holly, the U.S. forces were told that the enemy in Falluja was going to fight to the death. Now, of course we know that means in Arabian "Until the shooting starts and then we will run away."

The object of this exercise in Falluja was to kill every single last person in that city, not to capture them, not to make them prisoners. To kill them. They do not send in Marines to take prisoners.

O.K. then, I guess we shouldn't whine when innocent people are beheaded and soldiers are burnt and hung from bridges??

What I am trying to say here is, why should we expect the enemy to be anything more (or less) than what we are?? When the POW's, taken by the insurgents, start showing up dead, then we will be whining that "they didn't follow the rules"!

BTW: I am having alot of trouble figuring out where 300,000 people would flee to.??

WCP

11-21-2004, 10:05 AM

O.K. then, I guess we shouldn't whine when innocent people are beheaded and soldiers are burnt and hung from bridges??

How many soldiers have been beheaded? The Arbian Cowards™ only take unarmed prisoners. But you're right. We shouldn't whine when innorcent people are beheaded. We should go in and kill a thousand for every one they kill. They'll get the message most ricky tick.

What I am trying to say here is, why should we expect the enemy to be anything more (or less) than what we are?? When the POW's, taken by the insurgents, start showing up dead, then we will be whining that "they didn't follow the rules"!

I am so dog tired of this argument "We should be better than they are." We should be ten times worse than they are. If that doesn't work, we should be 20 times worse than they are...and then 30, 40, 50, etc.

BTW: I am having alot of trouble figuring out where 300,000 people would flee to.??

Out of range of the gun fire? If not, expect to die. <shrugs>

WCP

11-21-2004, 10:20 AM

Holly, we kill because we like to. No war has ever solved anything. We are predators. It really is as simple as that.

Getting to admit it is the hard part.

NorNec

11-21-2004, 10:20 AM

O.K. then, I guess we shouldn't whine when innocent people are beheaded and soldiers are burnt and hung from bridges??

What I am trying to say here is, why should we expect the enemy to be anything more (or less) than what we are?? When the POW's, taken by the insurgents, start showing up dead, then we will be whining that "they didn't follow the rules"!

BTW: I am having alot of trouble figuring out where 300,000 people would flee to.??

Holly, The Enemy set the rules.

HollyBaere

11-21-2004, 10:38 AM

Holly, The Enemy set the rules.

And they still are "setting the rules", NorNec!

WCP

11-21-2004, 10:51 AM

And they still are "setting the rules", NorNec!

And we're "dealing with it."

the bib

11-21-2004, 11:07 AM

Give the soldier the Medal of Honor, throw him a ticker tape parade and promote him to 5 star General. The guy knew what he was doing and WHAT to do.

Mazeltov.

Larry_Oldtimer

11-21-2004, 03:07 PM

It should be quite obvious to anyone watching Iraq that we are not fighting a conventional military force there. The "rules of war" per the Geneva Convention are intended to regulate warfare between two or more conventional military forces.

The terrorists do not wear any recognizable consistant uniform. They dress as civilians and even in the uniforms of the legitimate Iraqi National Guard. They pretend do surrender but commit suicide while doing so to kill coalition troops. There is no point in fighting them on the pre