Gis Force Men Fleeing Fallujah to Return

[truelies]

This should have been done months ago,

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=246764

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq Nov 12, 2004 — Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.S. troops following orders to allow only women, children and the elderly to leave.

The military says it has received reports warning that insurgents will drop their weapons and mingle with refugees to avoid being killed or captured by advancing American troops.

As it believes many of Fallujah's men are guerrilla fighters, it has instructed U.S. troops to turn back all males aged 15 to 55. .........................

[NorNec]

Praise allah....

[NorNec]

It makes me sad to see those children saying goodbye to "Uncle Abdul" though.

[lgllady]

Now why did they do that?

When they should have shot them.

[NorNec]

Now why did they do that?

When they should have shot them.



Got me? Abdul was always such fun killing uncle. ::)

[the bib]

Praise allah....


;D

[WCP]

Whatever happened to "We vow to fight the Great Satan to the death" again?

Pussies.

[the bib]

Whatever happened to "We vow to fight the Great Satan to the death" again?

Pussies.


Zarkoweinie says to his useful idiots "YOU fight the Great SAtan to YOUR deaths. Me? I'm gettin' outta Dodge!" ::)

[Larry_Oldtimer]

The trick to shooting fish in a barrel is to first get them there . . . they you also have to keep them there. 8)

[jAfO]

This should have been done months ago,

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=246764

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq Nov 12, 2004 — Hundreds of men trying to flee the assault on Fallujah have been turned back by U.S. troops following orders to allow only women, children and the elderly to leave.

The military says it has received reports warning that insurgents will drop their weapons and mingle with refugees to avoid being killed or captured by advancing American troops.

As it believes many of Fallujah's men are guerrilla fighters, it has instructed U.S. troops to turn back all males aged 15 to 55. .........................


Most of the hardcore insurgents have already left. Its part of the nature of an insurgency. The leaders and organizers will take over a place like Falluja and recruit from amongst the local population. Then, when that particular nest of insurgents is attacked it is the locals who are killed. The leaders and organizers then move onto the next area where they will set up their operations.

As long as there are willing recruits this cycle will continue until the counter insurgency (us) gets tired and can no longer, or is no longer willing to fight the insurgency. We have to do everything possible to make sure they don't have willing recruits. This can not be acheived through military means. Our most important operations in Iraq can not be military in nature they have to be aimed at getting ordinary Iraqis to back their present regime.

If we don't do this Falluja will just be the first in series of clashes where we will win all of the battles and eventually lose the war.

[LanceALott]

I WONDER IF WE KILLED ANY INSURGENTS IN FALLUJA?

[truelies]

......................... We have to do everything possible to make sure they don't have willing recruits......................


and we are doing that by killing all of those who take up arms against us.

[jAfO]

and we are doing that by killing all of those who take up arms against us.


This doesn't work in a war of this nature. You can try to kill all of the people who take up arms against us, but that is a whole lot easier said than done. If they stood and fought us it would work, but they won't do that. We can take over a place like Falluja, but the insurgents will just melt into the background and reappear somewhere else. You can't scare people into not joining the insurgency because the people who join the insurgency have a true belief in their cause. You can't win a war like this just by going after the insurgents, you have to go after their cause. You have to make it so that their potential recruits see something better than joining the insurgency.

[WCP]

This doesn't work in a war of this nature.

From what personal experience are you getting statements like this? Have we ever been in a "war of this nature" before?

You really should put a lot more IMHO's in your posts...IMHO. ::)

[jAfO]

From what personal experience are you getting statements like this? Have we ever been in a "war of this nature" before?

You really should put a lot more IMHO's in your posts...IMHO. ::)


Yes, we have been in a war of this nature before both in Vietnam and in our own Revolutionary war. The cause of the insurgency doesn't matter nearly as much as the way an insurgency is fought, and even more important is the reaction of the conventional military in the face of that insurgency.

Personal experience in this isn't all that important, all you have to do is study several insurgencies both successful and unsuccessful and you can get an idea of what is going to happen.

BTW I don't need to use IMHO anymore than anybody else on this board, its all about our own opinions. Or haven't you figured that out yet? ::)

[WCP]

Yes, we have been in a war of this nature before both in Vietnam and in our own Revolutionary war. The cause of the insurgency doesn't matter nearly as much as the way an insurgency is fought, and even more important is the reaction of the conventional military in the face of that insurgency.

Personal experience in this isn't all that important, all you have to do is study several insurgencies both successful and unsuccessful and you can get an idea of what is going to happen.

BTW I don't need to use IMHO anymore than anybody else on this board, its all about our own opinions. Or haven't you figured that out yet? ::)


So, you read a book. Wow!

'Ten HUT!! Officer on deck.

This isn't even close to Vietnam. Religiosity never entered the picture with Vietnam, you bonehead. Oil never entered the picture with Vietnam, you dolt. Insurrgents? You mean the Viet Cong, right? ::)

The Revolutionary War, eh? Great. Good thing we had modern weapons back in those days, huh? It's exactly like the Revolutionary War. ::)

Stick to what you're good at. Teaching pimply-faced teenagers in Alaska or Nebraska, or wherever the Hell you landed, whatever it is you "teach" them.

I piss on your personal opinion.

[WCP]

The ONLY way we're going to win this war is by wholesale slaughter of the "insurrgents" and to put the fear of God Allah in them. During this next four years, since "Bushy" doesn't have much to lose in an upcoming election, you will be witness to some of this slaughter.

Will the "insurrgents" be replaced by other whackos? Certainly. If war didn't work in controlling countries, we wouldn't do it and would resort to more peaceful methods, such as negotiation and diplomacy.

Who wants to walk into Iraq with the white flag to enter into these negotiations?

I'll pass.

These people have been living under submission all their lives for centuries. In fact, that's what "Islam" means, "to submit." Arabs are notoriously horrible fighters as we've seen time and time again. They are saber rattlers and at the first sight of blood, they scram the fuck out of town. They're cowards and anyone who thinks differently has fallen for their saber rattling.

The people in charge haven't.

[truelies]

This doesn't work in a war of this nature. You can try to kill all of the people who take up arms against us, but that is a whole lot easier said than done. If they stood and fought us it would work, but they won't do that. We can take over a place like Falluja, but the insurgents will just melt into the background and reappear somewhere else. You can't scare people into not joining the insurgency because the people who join the insurgency have a true belief in their cause. You can't win a war like this just by going after the insurgents, you have to go after their cause. You have to make it so that their potential recruits see something better than joining the insurgency.


and you believe all of this because..............????????

[jAfO]

So, you read a book. Wow!

'Ten HUT!! Officer on deck.

This isn't even close to Vietnam. Religiosity never entered the picture with Vietnam, you bonehead. Oil never entered the picture with Vietnam, you dolt. Insurrgents? You mean the Viet Cong, right? ::)

Vietnam and Iraq don't have to be the exact same war in order for one to teach you about the other. The cause of the war isn't what is at issue here, what is at issue is the dynamics of an insurgency and what our failed fight in Vietnam can teach us about not failing in Iraq. General Westmoreland and the leadership of the USA never understood that in order to win in Vietnam we had to get the South Vietnamese to back our efforts with a will that matched the will of the Communists. The same is true for Iraq, in order for us to win we have to have the backing of the majority of Iraqis. Their will to keep the insurgents from disrupting their society has to match or exceed the will of the insurgents to sew chaos and disruption. A military victory in this case isn't the ultimate goal because as Vietnam proved, you can win all the major battles and still lose the war.


The Revolutionary War, eh? Great. Good thing we had modern weapons back in those days, huh? It's exactly like the Revolutionary War. ::)

The Revolutionary War is another example of an insurgency that succeeded. The British had all of the advantages during most of the war. Technologically they were superior in the number and type of their armament in the area of cannon and especially ships. They were arguably the best trained army in the world at that time. The army was backed by one of the richest, if not the richest economy of that time. Our ancestors were able to overcome these disadvantages through persistence, belief, and by using many of the same tactics that are being employed in Iraq today. We would appear to have all of the advantages that Britain had, but as has been proven, you can have all of the outside advantages and still lose the war.


Stick to what you're good at. Teaching pimply-faced teenagers in Alaska or Nebraska, or wherever the Hell you landed, whatever it is you "teach" them.

I piss on your personal opinion.


I do stick to what I'm good at...teaching. But there is one thing I can't do, and that is teach those that are either too stubborn or too stupid to learn.

As for pissing on my personal opinion, I doubt you still have the bladder control neccessary to choose when and wheere you piss.

:-[

[jAfO]

The ONLY way we're going to win this war is by wholesale slaughter of the "insurrgents" and to put the fear of God Allah in them. During this next four years, since "Bushy" doesn't have much to lose in an upcoming election, you will be witness to some of this slaughter.

Slaughter may be neccessary, but it on its own won't bring us a final victory. Slaughter isn't enough, and because this is an insurgency and not a conventional war you will never be able to slaughter more insurgents than you will create through the use of military means alone.


Will the "insurrgents" be replaced by other whackos? Certainly. If war didn't work in controlling countries, we wouldn't do it and would resort to more peaceful methods, such as negotiation and diplomacy.

Who wants to walk into Iraq with the white flag to enter into these negotiations?

Who said anything about negotiation? You don't negotiate with the insurgents, you kill them. What I'm saying is that in order to win we have to get the Iraqis to back us. If we don't the insurgents will win in the end because we won't have the staying power to beat them.


These people have been living under submission all their lives for centuries. In fact, that's what "Islam" means, "to submit." Arabs are notoriously horrible fighters as we've seen time and time again. They are saber rattlers and at the first sight of blood, they scram the fuck out of town. They're cowards and anyone who thinks differently has fallen for their saber rattling.

The people in charge haven't.


Really, is that why the Arabs were able to conquer the entire ME, North Africa, and Spain all in the name of Islam. The Arabs have been horrible fighters for the last several hundred years, and in that time they have fought for foreign nations as subject peoples. No one fights particularly well in those circumstances. The same thing could have been said for the Vietnamese. They were subjugated for hundreds of years by the Chinese and the French and were certainly not considered the fiercest fighters in the world. Your racist ideas have no place and no value when it comes to this subject.

[jAfO]

and you believe all of this because..............????????


History, its all in the past.

[LanceALott]

From what personal experience are you getting statements like this? Have we ever been in a "war of this nature" before?



Do you have any personal experience at WINNING a war like this?